Tsinghua Summer School

[mason12]

I am 17 years of age, from the United Kingdom and I am contemplating going to study at a university in China firstly to study on a Chinese language course for a year or two and then onto a BA course, once my Chinese has reached the necessary level. I have been accepted onto Tsinghua university Summer course for two weeks and I thought that this would be a good oppurtunity for me to 'sample' studying at a Chinese university and to see if I feel that I could last the course.

My understanding is that Tsinghua University is very prestigious in China, please correct me if I am wrong! I was just wondering if anyone has had any experience of Tsinghua University, in particular the summer course but any opinions will be most appreciated. I would just like to know about the curriculum and the intensity of the Chinese language lessons as I am a total beginner and also about the campus itself, if anyone has any photographs then I would very much like to have a look if possible.

Please could you reply back, any suggestions/opinions are very much welcome.

Thankyou,

Mason

[adrianlondon]

If you're already booked to go, just go! You can find out what the campus is like after you arrive. if you plan to death, you'll get there and be bored ;)

Tsinghua has a great reputation for what it does best, which isn't teaching Mandarin to foreigners. That doesn't mean it won't be good, and at least most people will have heard of it and not laugh at the name (unlike Beijing Normal University, where I went) but the teaching will be the same as anywhere else.

Summer programs are usually qute relaxed, but at least you'll be taught pinyin and the basics which will give you a few days' head start over everyone else who turns up for the start of the Sept semester.

Make sure you have accommodation and that you apply for your visa nice and early (3 months in advance is the max though) if you're clashing with the Olympics.

If you're planning on learning Chinese for two years before starting your BA, then you don't need advice about the BA bit yet; you'll know it all by the time you start applying. Depending on what you want to study, Tsinghua could be a great place for that.

[yonglin]

The Tsinghua university campus is simply amazing. Take my word on this.

However, I'm not quite sure how a two-week course would benefit you. No matter how good teaching is, there is only so much you can learn in two weeks. As a complete beginner, I found the first couple of weeks in China quite frustrating (managing my everyday life without speaking very much Chinese). I'm not familiar with these particular courses, but I guess that if they baby you 24/7, you won't really experience this.

You should also note that once taking a two-week course, the marginal cost of taking a longer course is fairly low: the major expense will be your flight tickets over there anyway, and tuition fees per class hour tend to fall with an increasing number of hours overall, at most places. If you want my personal advice, I'd suggest you enroll on a longer course, e.g., a 6-12 week one. If you just look around, there will be quite a few of them, particularly at the beginner level. This will give you a real flavour for what studying in China is like.

Finally, I don't think you should worrying about "lasting the course": how much you study and how much you learn comes down to your own attitutde and how you spend your free time at the end. You could take it incredibly easy and not learn a whole lot, or you could study extremely hard and get conversationally fluent (at least) in a quite short period of time. "Lasting the course" will most certainly not be an issue.

Best of Luck!

[mason12]

Thankyou so much for you replies, as you can probably tell i like to plan everything and as I have just turned 17 and my parents don't have a clue about China and university applications it is all up to me! The main reason I want to attend the summer course is simply because I feel that it would be an easy transition and while I may not make as much improvement as I could attending a longer course and it is much more expensive for the summer course I feel that because I am still quite young the summer course will give me an oppurtunity to experience Chinese university life while not being thrown in there on my own! There will be staff and chaparones, which is not necessarily a good thing but for my first time in such a country as China I think that this may be a good option for me.

I know that I have no need to be thinking about the BA course yet at all but just for my own peace of mind I was wondering if they expect you to have any english A levels? Or is it just simply you Chinese Language ability? I wanted to find this out now because if I go to China for two years on a langugae course then I won't be at an English school thus meaning that I can't get references or attain any more qualifictions. So if I find out know then I can complete everything before I lleave for the language course.

Once again thankyou for your replies.

Mason

[roddy]

Don't want to rain on your parade, but I'd advise you to get your A levels and then decide what you want to do for university. For one thing (and I'm not 100% on this, so check) Chinese universities would expect you to be eligible for university entry in your own country before admission to a BA, and as I understand it that means A levels in the UK. Secondly if you did get onto a BA here and after six month decide it isn't working out you'd be in trouble. And that's even before you consider the issue of how future employers will regard a Chinese degree.

My unsolicited advice - do A levels, or whatever you need to do to get to a point that you can attend university in the UK. While doing that spend lots of time studying Chinese in your spare time. By the time you've got your A levels you could have Chinese at or approaching the level needed for BA entry over here, plus the option of skipping that idea and attending university in the UK - possibly in some China-related field which will give you the chance to spend a year over here anyway.

[mason12]

Thankyou for your reply but I deffinatly know that I have no intention of studying at a UK university it is either a Chinese university or none at all. I plan to work in China afterwards so I presume a degree from a Chinese university would still have a high prestige in their country. I understand that it is wise to study for my A levels but as you may understand it would be so frustrating for me to spend two years studying for A levels in subjects that I have absoloutly no interest in when I could be in China improving on my Chinese and living among Chinese people.

I really don't know what to do though for the best? As I feel that two years spent studying A levels amongst some unfocused english students would just depress me as my heart is elsewhere!

Mason

[gato]

My unsolicited advice - do A levels, or whatever you need to do to get to a point that you can attend university in the UK. While doing that spend lots of time studying Chinese in your spare time.

Previous thread on a related topic:

http://www.chinese-forums.com/showthread.php?p=114185#post114185

Re: possible jobs from studying chinese

[Scoobyqueen]

I agree with Roddy's sound advice.

If you did decide to go for a B.A (or eng, sc.etc), what subject would you choose? For example, I doubt whether a degree in Economics would be valued by international employers outside China since the syllabus might exclude some components for obvious political reasons. As a recruiter of graduates, I would view some of the Chinese degrees with scepticism and I would be wondering why the person had not done a sandwich course (cf. Roddy's post) at a European/US uni (ie these universities are universally accepted in terms of homologisation of degrees) first.

You need to consider that your decisions NOW will be forever be engraved on your CV and that any dubious points will be scrutinised at any job interviews you do. I have not come across such a candidate but if and when I do, I would want to know exactly how that decision came about and more specifically why you did not choose a UK degree. I would also want to compare your A-level results to see if entry to a UK/European/US university had not been possible.

Please do take these comments from an employers perspective.

To enter uni in China, Chinese students take an exam called 高考。It is taken 6,7,8 June each year (please correct me anyone if the dates have changed). It is a highly demanding exam.If you do not fulfil the local entry criteria for University you would need, as Roddy suggested, international A-level equivalent qualifications and a certain standard of Chinese achieved through an exam called HSK (more on this forum).

As regards the Tsinghua course. This is the equivalent to Cambridge in the UK. The University is known for its research on science and engineering. However, in terms of the language courses for foreigners, Tsinghua is slowly earning a good reputation by offering quality courses. The teachers are sometimes Tsinghua graduates or graduates of a prestigious teaching university. Whilst being accepted on a course for foreigners is not an achievement per se, you could "sell" the completion as such (ie by making reference to its equivalent UK university on your CV). The participants at Tsinghua tend to be from Korea, Japan, US then Europe.

[Scoobyqueen]

Dear Mason,

I just revisited your previous threads on what appears to be the same topic.

I get the impression you seem unsure about which direction to take. This reinforces what I wrote above (decisions stamped on your CV). Indeed such an indecision, if this is the case, will come across at interviews. You are best advised to wait until you are more clear on the vocation of your life and have a clear career story and path lined up.

[yonglin]

Haha... Now I know who you are! Didn't recognize that user-name at first ...

Have you ever considered attending a sixth-form college (or even an FE college) to complete your A-levels? I was under the impression that students at such schools might be somewhat more mature and motivated those in the sixth-form of a regular school.

You don't necessarily need to study things that you're not interested in. You could do A-levels in, say, Chinese, Dance, Photography, or whatever you feel like (although you may want to take some academic subjects if you'd change your mind and want to enter university in some special field). If you really cannot find any A-levels at all appropriate for your interests, it seems unlikely that you'd ever find a degree you'd be willing to do, even in China.

[mason12]

Thankyou everyone for all of your brillinat and informative advice. The degree course I would study in China would be BA Chinese language so I would be very interested in the course and even more motivated to complete it to a high level. I understand what everyone is saying with regards to A levels etc I am currently studying for an A Level in Dance and a National Diploma in Proffesional Dance which is the vocational equivalent of a first degree. So maybe if I continue with them for the mean time and when I have completed them then I could go out to China? Sorry to be so mixed up with my descisions it is just because I have been training to become a dancer since I was about 7 years of age and I have been in a full time trainng academy since the age of 13, so it is all I know and now that I want to do something else I don't have much options available to me and because China is my passion it only seems natural for me to do something such as study in China as I have an immense passion and love for it.

The only problem is that I don't know what descisions to make and as this is the only place where I can find like minded individuals to talk about it with I tend to bombard everyone with questions! This is because no one else is available for me to talk to about it as they are all focused on me training to become a dancer. They will only support me in this if I have a deffinitive plan and that I sort everything out myself and make a success out of it otherwise I don't have a hope of beeing able to study Chinese.

Thankyou, Mason.

[roddy]

Honestly no offense intended here, but you're young and you'll quite possibly change your mind. Keep your options open. Maybe apply to a UK university for deferred entry, spend a year in China, then decide.

[Scoobyqueen]

Mason,

You obviously have some other issues you need to sort out.

What strikes me though is that you have been pondering since last summer about learning Chinese but you are a still, some eight months hence, a complete beginner. I suggest you start learning the language in your spare time to see if this is really for you. This may aid your decision making.

You do need an aptitude for learning the language even though interest does go a long way. You might not want to do a degree for a full three-four years. Normally all single honours language student have an aptitude for languages hence you need to show this through an A-level in another language (in the UK).

Anyway, I just recall there is another way to go to a Chinese university. The Chinese government give out grants and scholarships. A Geman student started learning Chinese at age 13 as he was infatuated with China. He went all the way to complete a degree in China, all paid for through these scholarships. He ended up with a cerficate in translation from Germany later.

[imron]

China is my passion it only seems natural for me to do something such as study in China as I have an immense passion and love for it

Can I ask whether or not you've ever been to China? Personally, I found that the China I had envisioned in my mind before coming here was very different from the way China actually is. That's not necessarily a problem, as modern China is still a fascinating place, but you might well find that after coming here for the summer you have a different perception of what China is and isn't.

[anonymoose]

Have you thought about doing an A-level in Chinese first? I guess it might be quite difficult because not many schools in the UK offer it (yet), but it certainly is available.

On the one hand, I think life is too short to waste on things you're not interested in, and if you have your heart set on China, then you should go for it. But on the other hand, I think at your age especially, you should try to keep your options as open as possible. I'm not sure what the entry criteria for Chinese universities are, but if what Roddy says is true about needing A-levels, then you would be foolhardy to come here with the intention of progressing onto a degree course only to find that you don't meet the criteria.

The other thing I wanted to say is that, the most successful students are those who are able to teach themselves. Unlike school, at university level, you are left much more to your own devices to study. So perhaps another option, and one that will stand you in good stead for studying at a Chinese university, is to find somewhere that will allow you to take A-levels in one year, rather than two. If you are committed, you should be able to teach yourself the required material just by reading A-level textbooks. In this way, you can gain your A-levels, save a year, and it will look good on your CV because it shows you have come to China with a plan, and not just come here to escape school in the UK.

By the way, may I ask why you have this fascination for China?

[mason12]

Hi I am sorry it has taken me so long to reply it is just I have been away at school where internet access is strictly limited! So i cannot access any websites such as these or any that let me have any remote access with the outside world!

Anyway in answer to anonymoose I have to say that the main reason I am fascinated with China and all things Chinese is the fact that China is a country with such a unique and diverse culture that is so very different to the western norm that I am used to and I want to be able to fully immerse myself in something so different as to challenge myself and to also have an oppurtunity to be a part of the chinese society that I have so much respect and admiration for. Also I feel that peoples views and ideologies in China as a generlisation are more suited to how I feel and as Chinese students at university tend to be much more focused and determined I would be honoured to live and study among such focused individuals. Also as China is such a fast emerging economy I fell that it would be a great oppurtunity to be able to live and study in China as to see an emerging economy in action.

Some of these above points are how I feel about China but it is hard for me to pin point one particular reason on why I have this deep fascination for China but it is more aculmination of things that have lead me to feel this way. All I do know is that whenever I read or think about China and when I start learning Chinese I get this great sense of fufillment and happiness that I feel would only get greater if I had the chance to live in China.

Finally just to let everyone know I have now decided that I am going to continue learning Chinese by myself from the aid of textbooks, cd's etc whilst studying my A levels by distance learning which means that I will continue at my current school but learn the A level syllabus myself in my own time and take the subjects at the end of the next academic year. I am also going to attend Tsinghua University sumer course to get a feel for studying at a Chinese university.

So thankyou to everyone for their great advice and knowledge and I still welcome any other advice, thoughts and opinions on my study plan.

Mason

[yonglin]

Also I feel that peoples views and ideologies in China as a generlisation are more suited to how I feel and as Chinese students at university tend to be much more focused and determined I would be honoured to live and study among such focused individuals.

Ehrm... there are slackers everywhere, and there are hard workers everywhere. I've met extremely hard-working Brits and extremely lazy Chinese. The Chinese you would run into in the west would be quite unrepresentative of the Chinese nation as a whole, since they are either

(i) Immigrants or children of immigrants: people who give up all of their livelihood to move onto a different place/continent tend to be far more driven, determined and hard-working than the average person.

(ii) Young people studying abroad: either they've received some scholarship (=they are brilliant), or their parents are rich (=high working morale) and paying loads to send their children abroad (=immense pressure on the kids to succeed academically).

(iii) Tourists: as above - very rich (according to Chinese standards) - probably results from a great deal of hard work and determination.

In fact, I had a classmate (very laid-back type of guy) during my language studies in China who had found himself many Chinese friends with shared interests in China, but who was worried about his ability to bond with Chinese students at his own university back in Germany (for the reasons mentioned above).

Moreover, the students you will see enrolled in Chinese language-classes at Chinese universities will often be very far from your motivated and hard-working ideal.

Anyway, good luck with your studies and self-studies and have a great summer in Beijing!

[jaimolas]

Hi:

I just sent the aplication form for the 4 week summer program at this university...Am i still on the deadline? Is this program ok? Any experiences?

Thanks(sh)