Should Chinese frogive Japanese?

[troussier1955]

Do Japanese people hate Chinese?

There are a lot of Japanese students say they hate Chinese people. Why?

[Quest]

I agree with you completely that what they are doing is wrong -- Japanese tourists have nothing to do with the war, and they shouldn't be treated like that.

What you have said reflects exactly what you hated -- stereotyping the the rest of us on this forum or elsewhere as "the majority of chinese forumers and internet users i came across" who "cries of destroying the whole japanese race, raping all the japanese women, and beating up every japanese they see."

I believe as citizens of China, we have the right to demand (note: not force) that Japan show some respect to the sufferers of WWII by apologizing to them, and to our nation.

The action of Chinese hotheads online or offline does not really excuse Japan in any way. Also, the reason we have so many hotheads is because Japan failed to settle the past with its neighbors.

I said "why do we need cops", because per your logic, who are the cops to arrest the criminals, and who are the judges to impose charges? They did not themselves suffer from the crimes committed by the criminals.

Also, the invasion was a war against the Chinese nation, not just those who sufferred. When the twin towers went down on sept 11th, who were the other americans to feel rage? Most weren't even relatives of the dead.

To me it is absolutely acceptable to say that "your country invaded ours in the not so distant past, killed our people, raped our women, destroyed our country, and yet you do not admit it and you do not apologize. We, therefore, do not like your country and your people."

It is also wrong to say that today's Chinese have nothing to do with WWII, when a nation was hurt and devastated, its history was completely changed. We are the people who inherited this devastated land. The apology our parents and grandparents were not able to receive, we will at least keep their voices alive until their denied justice is given back to them.

[holyman]

Japan aggressed China many years ago, but have you ever thought about why they chose China, why not other countries. What a humiliation! Remember all the wrongdoings done by Japanese in China, but meanwhile, don't forget this hummiliation covered upon China as well. We don't hate because of hatred,but because we should be stimulated by that humiliation to make our country stronger.

maybe u should search for an answer for this: why is the amount of 'fake japanese army', consisting of chinese who helped the japanese to invade china, more than the total of japanese army sent to china? i remember the total japanese troops in china is about 1.7mil, while the 'fake japanese army' is at least 2.2mil.

regarding why the chinese are using japanese products, no.1, china is enjoying trade surplus from japan for almost a decade, until last year then the got a slight deficit. the govt wouldnt want to stop trading with the japanese. no. 2, chinese products of the same sort are lousy in terms of quality, thou much cheaper.

[holyman]

Do Japanese people hate Chinese?

There are a lot of Japanese students say they hate Chinese people. Why?

the 'hatred' japanese had towards the chinese are slightly different. they didnt want the chinese eliminated or their land nuked. japanese hate the chinese for their bad habits, unhygienic lifestyles and also hostility and double standards towards common japanese(and foreigners). spitting in public, unruly behavior is probably the nightmare of most japanese. most of the time, chinese cannot, do not and will not queue to get something done unless repeatedly reminded to do so. i think thats just a difference in cultural/social background. most japanese and foreigners had experience being cheated by chinese shopkeepers or businessmen, simply because they are foreigners. then the japanese were repeatedly reminded to apologise for ww2 everytime they meet some chinese. i wonder if any chinese would like to be reminded of the cultural revolution or tian'anmen incident everytime they see some foreigners...

[Quest]

I don't think we will get anywhere with this discussion. We see things from different worlds. Your world is too logical for me.

I believe humans have emotions, and emotions are natural and cannot be reasoned. Why do we feel grief when a family member is hurt? Why does a father want to kill the rapist of his daughter. What right do they have to feel sad? What right do today's Chinese have to feel hurt? You can say I am a traditionalist, but your "modernistic" viewpoints do not make sense to me, and I have no interest in joining your world.

[Quest]

All the things you've mentioned about how bad, how rude, how unruly, and how ugly the Chinese people are. Are you saying because of that, they do not qualify for the justice of the civilized world? or that they should shut up, lest they further shame themselves?

[holyman]

I believe as citizens of China, we have the right to demand (note: not force) that Japan show some respect to the sufferers of WWII by apologizing to them, and to our nation.

The action of Chinese hotheads online or offline does not really excuse Japan in any way. Also, the reason we have so many hotheads is because Japan failed to settle the past with its neighbors.

I said "why do we need cops", because per your logic, who are the cops to arrest the criminals, and who are the judges to impose charges? They did not themselves suffer from the crimes committed by the criminals.

i wonder what disrespect did the common japanese showed so that the chinese have to ask for respect? did they humiliated the dead?

mentioning what the hotheads done is to answer ur idea of 'chinese doesnt want anything from the common japanese, they just want the japanese govt to apologise'. that doesnt excuse the common japanese cos they need not be excused in the first place. what have they done that they have to look for excuses?

cops are needed cos legally speaking all humans are equal and do not have special rights over others, including killing others, arresting others and locking others up. therefore we need the cops to do the dirty job if someone breaks the law. if a person A kills another person B, and the son of B kills A in return, that makes 2 murderers. thou we can sympathize with B junoir but 2 wrongs doesnt make one right. but if it is the legal system that decides A to be sentenced to death b4 a jury, A is still dead in the end, with no one else is to blame.

[holyman]

All the things you've mentioned about how bad, how rude, how unruly, and how ugly the Chinese people are. Are you saying because of that, they do not qualify for the justice of the civilized world? or that they should shut up, lest they further shame themselves?

i am just stating some of the reasons why japanese and probably other foreigners sometimes showed their dislike towards the chinese, this is probably some cultural shock issues, for example i knew the chinese businessmen cheat other chinese as well if given half a chance, not exactly to foreigners only. but the foreigners might think otherwise. any other implications is up to the individual to decide, i am not suggesting anything and these statements had nothing to do with ww2 issues.

[holyman]

It is also wrong to say that today's Chinese have nothing to do with WWII, when a nation was hurt and devastated, its history was completely changed. We are the people who inherited this devastated land. The apology our parents and grandparents were not able to receive, we will at least keep their voices alive until their denied justice is given back to them.

please dont forget u too inherited the land that ur forefathers conquered from others. that land of canton wasnt even chinese land to begin with, so do u apologise to the indegenious bachviet people because ur ancestors took their lands? oh, i forgot, the bachviets were chased away and their cultures had in the end disppeared from human history. come on, history is afterall, still history.

anyway i wonder if u can really inherited any land nowadays, literally speaking... in china the land belongs to the country. common chinese dont own any land.

[Quest]

exactly who is asking the Japanese individuals to apologize? No one on this forum, and few outside of this forum. What infuriated Chinese forumers and Chinese citizens was the Japanese government's repeated acts of indifference. All the talks in those patriotic websites are just talks, and you know it too. Japanese citizens are generally safe in China, you are making it look like every Japanese tourist has been questioned and asked to apologize by every Chinese citizen.

[Quest]

Sure history is history. The history that's long passed and forgotten does not affect us anymore, but the history of a few decades ago does belong to the present, and it is therefore still our business. Some of its people are still alive today.

[holyman]

roughly a dozen of my japanese friends were forced to apologise when they visited chinese friends at their homes or while travelling on a train. i myself was sometimes mistook for a japanese and people hurl volgar language at me, that includes once when i was trying to get a ticket in a hubei city, when locals purposely pushed me out of the 'queue' and blocked me from getting anything. i resolved this in a rather simple and peaceful method, just showed my passport to the station master and request for assistance, and i got one immediately. they watched me happily get the ticket with the station master by my side.

then one of my japanese friend was killed by chinese when she was on a ngo mission to build a school for poor families in sichuan. almost all my foreigner friends encountered pickpockets. a korean girl cried b4 me and ask me a simple but powerful question after her handphone was stolen(by a chinese who trailed her into a supermarket and took it when she was looking for something at the glass window). she asked me, why are chinese like that? damn, with all my wits arguing with u over here, i was stuck and i cannot answer that simple question.

[Quest]

why are chinese like that? damn, with all my wits arguing with u over here, i was stuck and i cannot answer that simple question.

WWII could be part of the cause.

[holyman]

Sure history is history. The history that's long passed and forgotten does not affect us anymore, but the history of a few decades ago does belong to the present, and it is therefore still our business. Some of its people are still alive today.

oh no, double standards alert,

so maybe the japanese should just wait and let it become a long passed history?

[Quest]

so maybe the japanese should just wait and let it become a long passed history?

That seems to be what you are telling us to do.

ok I am tired, I will let others speak.

[holyman]

WWII could be part of the cause.

possibly, so therefore the sufferings of the chinese are probably justifiable as well.

That seems to be what you are telling us to do.

ok I am tired, I will let others speak

thats going by ur logic...

[sm_sung]

roughly a dozen of my japanese friends were forced to apologise when they visited chinese friends at their homes or while travelling on a train.

I think asking individual japanese to apologized is totally wrong, however...

Let me first explain my point of view. I have no hatred whatsoever towards any Japanese individuals, however I think that the actions of their government are nothing short of despicable. Like Koizumi's repeated shrine visits despite protests from many Asian countries.

then one of my japanese friend was killed by chinese when she was on a ngo mission to build a school for poor families in sichuan. almost all my foreigner friends encountered pickpockets. a korean girl cried b4 me and ask me a simple but powerful question after her handphone was stolen(by a chinese who trailed her into a supermarket and took it when she was looking for something at the glass window). she asked me, why are chinese like that? damn, with all my wits arguing with u over here, i was stuck and i cannot answer that simple question.

You know holyman, this paragraph sends out many wrong messages, especially the part ragarding the korean girl's experience. if she asked me why a chinese sold her handphone, i would simply tell her that it was because she was in China! Yes, there are bad Chinese around(just like in any society), but asking a question like "why are chinese like that?" and generalizing the behaviours of all Chinese is just plain wrong and racist. Are you trying to tell me no crimes against Chinese happen in Korea or Japan?

that land of canton wasnt even chinese land to begin with, so do u apologise to the indegenious bachviet people because ur ancestors took their lands?

This isn't due to double standards...are the bachivets asking for an apology? Why does America apologize for the events in Abu Gharib prison but not for taking over native American Indian land(centuries ago)?

[sm_sung]

(Quest I really think you should read this post.)

holyman, on this thread you've been repeatedly reminding us what a forgiving Chinese you are with statements like:

can i 'represent' u to take money from ur accounts without ur consent? why, by racial content we are all chinese, arent we?

I did a little detective work and made some "intreresting" observations. In the Society:Religion in China thread(http://www.chinese-forums.com/viewtopic.php?p=15137&highlight=#15137) zackzhou asked holyman:

exactly!! holyman! are you a Chinese resident? Most of chinese believe in anything that is 'effective', those able to bring tangible benefits to them.

To which holyman replied:

nope, a foreigner living in china for quite some time

Somewhere else holyman said something like "foreigners like myself"(not sure where though,does anyone know?)

Holyman, tell us, are you really a Chinese? Or a foreigner? Or a foreigner pretending to be a Chinese? :roll:

[holyman]

Holyman, tell us, are you really a Chinese? Or a foreigner? Or a foreigner pretending to be a Chinese?

does that really matters? if a murderer says the earth is a sphere, or a yr is 365.25days, it doesnt mean he's wrong just becos he's a murderer. facts remain as facts regardless of the id of the speaker, and so are opinions.

or maybe u'd like to go by the 'bloodline' theory?

anyway u dont have to be a detective, there's a function called 'find all post by ...' in this forum, and there's nothing secretive about this.

[sm_sung]

If you really believe in that, why have you been so fervently telling us that you are a Chinese when it seems that you aren't one? Can you justify your actions?