How to teach the tones of Mandarin

[Tinov]

Hi,

Could anyone recommend a way that a teacher of Mandarin can help native speakers of English to learn (vocalise) the tones of Mandarin? I am looking for techniques or tools that a teacher could use in class.

Teachers and students are both welcome to reply.

Thanks

Tinov

[johnd]

Chinesepod has just done lessons on each tone, maybe you can listen and get some ideas:

http://chinesepod.com/lessons/

Amongst other things, they try to associate the tones with sounds in English.

[heifeng]

This is a subject I could write on and on and on about, but I'll try to keep it short and sweet.

Class work

1) In general, most people I know can say the tones reasonably well for individual characters, but things get messier in sentences and reading, etc. Even so, I guess they need to fully understand the ranges of the tones exactly how high or low the tone should go (scale 1-5) on paper or graphically first and THEN whether its individual character, words or sentences I suggest acting as though you are a conductor, carry a mini baton to connect what is lifeless and on paper to them actually practicing and reaching the exact starting and ending points for each tone. Many students, not just English speakers, have a great difficulty in reaching the high or low end of a tone and make the 1/2 third tone too long or short, so you'll have to point out what they are saying and what they should be saying. For example, if they are starting off on a tone too high and as a result can't maket it go any higher, then tell them that's what they are doing. (you will have to listen very carefully too...hopefully you won't just say...I dunno, that just wasn't "right") Anyway, it will be painful at first, but will get them on track to good habits later. So put that baton to use and make dramatic arm movements and for each sentence let the students hear the range of the tones as if you are in front of an orchestra to reach those 'high notes' and 'low notes'. Even if it’s exaggerated at first that should drill some tones into their heads and get a better feeling for how the Chinese SHOULD sound. Not only do they need to be able to produce the correct tone but develop an ear for what is write and wrong (including their own pronounciation and even that of their classmates)...thus, see point 2:

Homework

2) Then make them record some sentences or a paragraph at home (or in lab if your school is equipped) and point out what is being said incorrectly. If they each have a tape you can listen and then record a comment on the end of their own recording by saying what they are saying incorrectly (this can be a more delicate way to handle point 3, below). Help them recognize why the tone is wrong by saying that sentence or that character correcty for them. Many students can't really hear what they are saying is wrong while they are saying it so they'll have to learn to listen carefully, but eventually they should be able to improve their own listening skills to understand why it’s wrong and get better at mimicking the correct sound.

Reinforcement

3) Luckily (Most) English speakers (from western) countries (I am purely assuming) can at least deal with being mildly criticized/corrected in class so if they ARE pronouncing something incorrectly you have to be very proactive and tell them DIRECTLY ~ Or at least tell them outside of class but make sure they know why and how to fix it. On the few RARE occasions that a teacher flat out yelled at me or personally took me aside to tell me I was repeatedly saying the wrong tone on a word (FYI these were never actual from China Chinese teachers, they were all DASHAN types from prestigious uni's...so it's interesting in how the cultural differences came into play in the classroom) it really stuck in my head for good. Anyway as a effective Mandarin teacher, don't let your students just slide through the tones...

GoOd LuCk

[yonglin]

As far as I'm aware, the third tone has three different pronounciations.

A. Before 1st, 2nd, 4th tone (I think of this one as "low flat".. others call it "half" 3rd?)

B. Before 3rd tone (rising, similar to 2nd tone)

C. Dipping (at the end of a sentence; before major pause)

Most textbooks/instructors teach C as the general pronunciation, with A and B as special cases. I think that A LOT could be gained from teaching A as the general pronunciation, with B and C as the special cases. This would have helped me A LOT. I think that many non-native speakers make the mistake of thinking that the 3rd tone is intrinsically dipping, and tend to dip it far more often than they should (me included). The fact that pinyin looks like it does doesn't really help.

Apart from that, heifeng's advice is excellent.

[here2learn]

Add a little humor now & then when they say the wrong tone for a word that could mean something else...

for example:

...if they say something like 下雨 (xia4yu3) but it sounds like they said xia4yu2, I'd stop abruptly and say "WHAT?!" It's raining FISH?!?" and make it a little humorous or at least get their attention. Then take a moment to have everyone repeat it. Yell at them in a funny way, "Rain doesn't go up!!!" as you draw the up tone mark. Tell them to imagine raindrops going DOWN, then hitting the pavement and bouncing back up in little checkmark angles like they do, and write a big 3rd tone mark on the board as they repeat yu3 yu3 yu3.... in fact, draw the lines of rain hitting the bottom of the board and bouncing back up a little. They will remember it.

It'd be hard to do that all the time, but even once in each class or one a week would be helpful, or ask the students to come up with the way to remember the tone. After you've given a few images over the first few classes, start making them do it, "Ok, how can we remember this one?" Then they'll be doing the work, and the person who gives an idea will always remember it for sure. Maybe try to get the "wrong" person to give the class an idea for how to remember. (i mean the person who got the tone wrong to begin with)

[Prase]

Amongst other things, they try to associate the tones with sounds in English.

Please, can you explain why some people always insist on examples from their language, even in cases when it is totally ridiculous?

[monto]

I think, while teaching the tones, hand gestures mimiccing the tone marks may be helpful.

[here2learn]

Please, can you explain why some people always insist on examples from their language, even in cases when it is totally ridiculous?

Because they're stupid. Just kidding. But 'ignorant' can be used here...

Because it's easier and they think it can be done. They need an example "blown apart", broken down - analyze the mouth & tongue movements between English R and Chinese R to see how different they are, then maybe they'll be more open.

It's ridiculous to those of who understand how different it is, but when you've never/barely studied a foreign language and your brain doesn't know anything else, it searches for the nearest familiar thing to copy. Brains like to categorize and label, and it's much more comfortable for a brain to put a new thing together with an already-known-thing than to set up a whole new office with new filing cabinets. (especially in your brain, which for some reason, we all think is pretty small and limited, which it's not)

[OneEye]

I've said this elsewhere, but the FSI Pronunciation and Romanization module helped me tremendously. It's very dry, so might not work in a modern classroom setting, but I'm sure you could take their approach and make it more interesting and it would be very effective.

[imron]

I think, while teaching the tones, hand gestures mimiccing the tone marks may be helpful.

No, because then whenever you talk, you end up looking like you're conducting an orchestra. This is not a habit you want to form.

[Prase]

analyze the mouth & tongue movements between English R and Chinese R to see how different they are, then maybe they'll be more open.

They are not necessarily so much different. Many Americans have retroflex R.

(especially in your brain, which for some reason, we all think is pretty small and limited, which it's not)

Yes, online dictionaries are great.

[flameproof]

I really like the Michel Thomas way:

As a teacher you can ask the students to visualize it the following way:

1st tone: Green thumb out

2nd tone: Blue finger up

3rd tone: red V (for victory)

4th tone: black finger down

That will give students a visual, plus a physical way to remember the tones.

If you teach via stories then the Alison Matthew way is nice too. Stories are always strange and have different characters:

1st tone: Giant

2nd tone: Fairy

3rd tone: Teddy

4th tone: Dwarf

No, because then whenever you talk, you end up looking like you're conducting an orchestra. This is not a habit you want to form.

I completely disagree. The hand movements are for visualization, not really to copy them. You won't need them soon anyway. And if you think you really look silly, then it will stick even better.

[imron]

I completely disagree. The hand movements are for visualization, not really to copy them.

Yeah, but they can be habit forming if you're not careful. When I started learning, I used to do similar movements with my head until someone (Chinese) pointed out how silly it looked.

[monto]

Yeah, but they can be habit forming if you're not careful. When I started learning, I used to do similar movements with my head until someone (Chinese) pointed out how silly it looked.

You did it at wrong time, wrong spot.

I suggested that the teache do it, not the students.

You can do it now in teaching.

[roddy]

Yep - I still find my finger twitching if I'm concentrating hard on getting tones right.

@Yonglin I've seen academic papers which describe the four tones as HH (ie high to high), MH (ie from mid to high), LL and HL (you figure it out). The textbook standard dip and rise third tone just doesn't get a look in. See the pdf I link here for an example.

The visualization / hand-waving stuff, even the assigning of the 1-4 numbers, might be helpful, but I don't think it's worth getting bogged down in it. All that should be is a brief-as-possible intermediary stage on the way to actual internalization of the tones, where you don't think '看, kan, fourth tone' while visualizing a black finger going down a dwarf and swinging your hand from shoulder to hip (really, who thinks this stuff up?), you just think '看, kàn'.

Other tips. Beginners are likely to claim initially that they can't even hear the tones. I'd like to try starting by playing sequences such as mā má mā as a 'spot the odd one out' exercise. Move on to doing that with tone patterns. Get across the idea that there are tones and they are hearable. Once you can distinguish, identify. Move onto tone groups.

On production - I've said it before, and I'll say it again, and if you come back later I'll still be saying it. You need someone who can listen to your tones and tell you not just that you're wrong, but why you're wrong. Problems that have been pointed out with my tones include:

First tone: wavering. falling off at the end. Not high enough.

Second tones. Starts too low. Ends too low. Not decisive enough (I think I've said this before, but I suspect the use of the 'questioning' tone to describe the second tone results in an overlong, uncertain tone, rather than the quick upward leap you actually want.

Third tone: not getting low enough.

Fourth tone. Starting too low. Ending too high. Unsteady descent.

Now when I'm told all that I can work on it. But your average bloke off the street, and indeed I suspect the majority of Chinese teachers, can't do it. I doubt any learner without some kind of training can self-diagnose. The teacher I'm working with at the moment has been doing Mandarin training since, at a guess, I was riding a bike with stablizers on, and she will still sometimes look at me and tell me she hasn't got an idea what just happened to my tones, but it sure as hell wasn't right.

Enough of the correction and repetition and you can start to hear your own incorrect tones when they pop out. That's a hell of an incentive to start getting things right, because you realize how wrong you sound.

This is a subject quite close to my heart, not to mention a nail in my shoe. I just basically glossed over the tones for four years, was embarrassed by and ignored them for three years and am now trying to fix seven years of bad habits. It ain't easy. That said the last few weeks I've had my tones singled out for compliments twice, which has never happened before. So that's good.

[imron]

I suggested that the teache do it, not the students.

And what happens is that the students then think "oh that's a good idea" and then copy the teacher.

You did it at wrong time, wrong spot.

You're absolutely correct, because there is no right time and right spot to do this in normal speech I still maintain that it's best not to develop such a habit.

[muyongshi]

I second Imron's opinion. If you rely on a "method" of any motions you then will forever associate the tones with the motion. Period.

[flameproof]

I second Imron's opinion. If you rely on a "method" of any motions you then will forever associate the tones with the motion. Period.

Have you really thought about this one? Speaking tones requires mouth and tongue motion too. And anyway, if it works for you, use it. And that's all what matters.

And who can really count the people in China that look stupid? One more won't matter.....

[monto]

Before continue the arguement with you two, I have to ask (求教）you for the English expression of 形象思维. I tried to find it in my dic. (big enough) ,but there is nothing eccept a long line meant to explain it.

I know the other: 逻辑思维 —— logical thinking

[flameproof]

No arguments here. A good teacher needs a variety of ways to get his material through. He needs to have a good combination of methods. The brute force way (read chapter 1-3 now) is not really a good method IMHO.

The entry question was obviously ask to check if there are other methods out there. So I replied. I have certainly seen plenty of don't care and no concept teachers. I wish they would think a little about what they actually do.