Help: Xiamen, Hangzhou or Beijing

[Poemba]

Hi all,

Last time I posted I was sure i'd go to Kunming, but after reading 200hours of comments at this website, I have a different question. Why can't you guys all just agree and say: go here and your stay will be perfect

Anyways, my question:

I am doubting between studying Chinese in Xiamen, Hangzhou or Beijing.

Why:

1. Xiamen: Beautiful campus, nice weather, cheap and good university. But.. will I really experience the real China if i'm at an island as Xiamen ?

2. Hangzhou: Good university ( Zhejiang ), pretty good weather, nice surroundings, not that expensive. But: I don't know about Hangzhou.. it's not as big as Beijing and not as relaxed as Xiamen. Ofcourse: I don't know shit yet, but that's what I read.

3. Beijing: Big city, lots to see, enough nightclubs, enough scenery, but.. pollution, high prices, to crowded perhaps? And the olympics coming up, I quess it's harder to find an appartment that way.

I'm just looking for a city to stay in for one year, study Chinese, party, learn more about spirituality ( I'm not a buddhist or something, just interested ), experience the real China.

Could you guys give some advice? I think Xiamen is nice.. but I have the feeling I'll be missing out on a lot if I'm not in Beijing or some other huge city.

Thanks again!!!!

[cdn_in_bj]

I've only visited Hangzhou as a tourist, so I can't comment about living there long-term, but it seemed like a nice place to me. And it's not exactly a small town either, if you compare it to western cities. I say if you like the university and the weather, why not go for it?

[nicefreak]

What's wrong with Kunming?

I plan to go there myself...

[Poemba]

Hi,

cdn_in_bj: Well, I don't really have a feeling about Hangzhou as I have with Xiamen and Peking. But I've never been to China, so I really don't know. Perhaps Hangzhou is the best choice.

Nicefreak: Yeah, I haven't really scrapped Kunming of my list. But I think Xiamen, Hangzhou and Peking are nicer to live in. Please comment if you think I'm wrong!

[adrianlondon]

The reason you get so many different opinions is that China is so freaking big! It's like asking "should I go to Lisbon, Paris, Berlin or Prague?". If you're American you probably think that's a valid question anyway ;)

Each place has its good points and bad points and it really depends on how that fits in with your own personal philisophy. I went to Beijing (I love cities and wanted to be in the centre of things) and had a fanatstic time.

[foodtarget]

Hi, I'm back to weigh in on this topic... again. I won't fiercely defend Xiamen this time though, haha. I like Xiamen a lot, but I bet every city has its pros and cons. What I wanted to ask (Poemba), though, is what exactly do you think is the "real China"? I'm sorry, but just suggesting that any particular city is more "Chinese" than the others seems rather uninformed. All of these cities have long rich histories that are equally Chinese. I would actually say that the large cities don't represent the "real China." Granted, Beijing has a wealth of more well-known historical sites. But in general, I don't think the lifestyle and culture in Beijing and Shanghai really represent the majority of Chinese citizens. Actually, the majority of Chinese are rural peasants, so maybe living in the countryside would expose you to what China is really like. Although I think Beijing is a decent choice, my professors back home told me not to go to Shanghai, because it is such an international city that it's not a good environment to learn Chinese and experience traditional Chinese culture. And I think Beijing is like this to a lesser extent, with its large expat population, especially with the Olympics coming up and Beijing trying to become more foreigner-friendly.

[imron]

learn more about spirituality

I would also say that you're unlikely to learn much about spirituality, which plays a distant role to materiality in modern China.

[Poemba]

About the 'real' China.. I'm not really sure about the real China. That's why I ask you guys. I want to experience the culture, not the jetset life like in Shanghai, I don't know.. I just wanna live in a nice city and not miss out on anything. And since Beijing is the capitalcity, I quess Beijing is the best choice. I'm from Holland, and I must say that Amsterdam ( capital city ) is pretty cool compared to the other cities. Ofcourse Holland is a LOT smaller, but still. But on the other hand, Xiamen and Hangzhou aren't that small and also offer a lot of possibilites. I'm just worried I'll get bored or something. What do you guys think?

Foodtarget, I see you live in Xiamen. Can you tell us some more about Xiamen, studying there, nightlife, making friends, the city Xiamen.. and so on! Because you can't find much at the forum about Xiamen. ( And don't worry, I've read every topic )

[lilongyue]

I started a thread where I've been answering questions about studying in Hangzhou (I've been living here for more than 2 years). That might help you with make up your mind about whether or not Hangzhou would be the right place for you. I personally like it. As far as spirituality goes, imron summed it up. If you think the West is materialist, you ain't seen nothin' yet. But, Zhejiang province, of which Hangzhou is the capital, has a few of the "holy" mountains, like Mount Tiantai, and Putuo Shan. Hangzhou itself has the temple where the major transmission of Zen to Japan took place. If you want to search for spirituality, it can be found, but you're going to have to try to find it. Outside of Buddhism, I don't know much about what kind of religious/spiritual practice is happening, or where. Let me say it again, unless you're willing to work to find things spiritual (which means being able to speak Chinese, since there aren't English-speaking, foreigner-friendly meditation retreat centers like there are in other parts of Asia) you aren't going to find anything. Don't come to China thinking to have a religious experience in the way that people do when they go to India, Thailand, Burma, or Sri Lanka, at least not without effort, that is.

[Poemba]

Hi,

I have read you thread about Hangzhou several times already! I know China isn't very spirtual anymore, so I scrapped that of my list

I I think I will be choosing Xiamen after all. I think it's a good place to adapt to the Chinese culture, enjoy the weather and to study Chinese. After my study I want to travel thru China, and ofcourse not forget Hangzhou! I think going to China for a year will really be good for my personal development, no matter where I go. That's why I also wanted to gain more knowledge about spirituality, but that is not my main goal. My main goal is to know more about Asian cultures, China, Chinese language and for personal development.

I quess you guys all changed a lot since you moved to Asia, in a good way I hope. I hope the same thing will happen to me, I have a great life but it can always get better!!!

[cui ruide]

Hah, you've made your decision already, but I'll throw in my two cents. Like everyone else, I'll also warn you about finding the "real China." Here's my quick summary:

Beijing - the capital, huge, lots of history, nightlife, interesting foreign-Chinese interaction, a special culture that everyone who's been there for a time appreciates; all of China represented because there's people from all over there; vanguard of new music and art, etc.; horrible pollution; people speak Beijing Mandarin

Hangzhou - medium sized city; very manicured and pretty, green; I hear ZheDa is nice; I have friends who loved it; I thought it was boring. Some nightlife. very humid, one of the 4 Chinese furnaces, cold in winter; I felt stressed and hectic there. Richest city in China? People have southern accents or speak local dialects.

Xiamen - haven't been, heard it's a nicer version of Hangzhou

Kunming - while Beijing has culture, Kunming has counter-culture feel (also has music, etc.). Higher altitude (1800m, 6500ft); "Spring City"--temperate weather, rain in summer; smaller-medium city; lots of minorities; feels very alive and people all outside on streets; nightlife a little lacking (though good bars, just chiller scene, less foreigners); less foreigners, but more concentrated; hardly any pollution; I think it'd be hard to appreciate Kunming without having been out east for some time. People speak really clear Mandarin, Kunming dialect, or other dialects/minority languages

[nicefreak]

I've traveled to Kunming about three times. And I always had a tremendous time. The people were relaxed, the girls pretty. And it is in Yunnan which means, you have lots of interesting minorities around.

Did anyone study at any university in Kunming? Does anyone know how many Westerners actually live in Kunming?

Thanks

[pandaxiongmao]

I recently went to Xiamen to visit for nearly two weeks.. Xiamen University definitely has a beautiful campus. Xiamen also has a lot of history around it, and even more if you get a chance to go out and explore the rest of Fujian province.

However, I don't think Xiamen could be described as a cheap mainland city. Especially if you want to eventually buy a flat - the flats in Xiamen are more expensive than flats in Shenzhen. Other prices seem similar to high-level mainland cities.

For what it is worth, I found most of the Chinese food in Xiamen to be too sweet or too salty. Nothing was spicy enough. If you want spicy food, you'd probably be best off going to Kunming or Chengdu. Kunming also seemed to have a lot more for vegetarians when I lived there a few years ago.

[Poemba]

About food and stuff, there is always a way to find spicy, sweet, vegetarian food and so on. But nice to hear that Xiamen offers a lot of history as well, because I was kind of afraid that there would not be much history in Xiamen. My choice is still not 100% certain, since I'm also looking for cultural programmes. So not just learning Chinese, but the Chinese culture. economy, language, business and so on. I hope china education center can help me get more information about that. And it's not that expensive, 300dollars = €190. And they fix you up with everything.

Do any of you guys have experience with the china education center?

[Kristyx]

I have studied in Xiamen. The city is great, it's relaxed and easy to make Chinese friends there. The University campus is absolutely beautiful. As for the classes there, everybody will have their own experiences, but as for my elf I was very disappointed. I had expected to have many classes over the week but only had 12 hours each week. The elective choices we were offered clashed with the core modules we had to take. Most of the people in my class were disappointed but I did hear of students in other grades who thought their classes were alright. Despite my disappointment over the classes, I loved the city and this made me feel like I hadn't completely wasted the two years it took me to save enough money to go there.

[Poemba]

Wow, I hope the university is good. But I quess it's pretty good, to bad to hear about you bad experience! But nice to hear you love Xiamen!!! I'm busy registering at the university and arranging accomodation at the moment. I hope to be there in the middle of August:mrgreen: Anyone else going there as well ?

[caro-line23]

Hi,

I went to a Chinese school, in Beijing last year so as to improve my bad Chinese level. I choose to go with Nacel which resulted to be a very reliable organization. I stayed in a host family’ house and I took 20 hours of courses per week. I can say that 4 weeks were enough to help me to express correctly and to better understand this amazing language! Beijin is a fabulous city even if some stuffs can result a bit expensive.It was a very good experience and I still keep in touch with some friends I knew there.

I checked on their website and I found the link of the program I took…I hope it cam be useful for some of you!!!

http://www.nacel.org/cdlp/Language-Schools/China/Chinese-CHIBE.php

[here2learn]

Kunming - .... People speak really clear Mandarin, Kunming dialect, or other dialects/minority languages

from: cui ruide

Really clear mandarin? Really? I had no idea. So... in Kunming, on a typical day out - on a bus, in a food store, park, etc... what language(s) do you hear as 'background noise'? And does EVERYONE speak good mandarin, like an older lady in a little vegetable market, or a taxi driver, etc?

[lilongyue]

Really clear mandarin? Really? I had no idea. So... in Kunming, on a typical day out - on a bus, in a food store, park, etc... what language(s) do you hear as 'background noise'? And does EVERYONE speak good mandarin, like an older lady in a little vegetable market, or a taxi driver, etc?

It's best not to get too hung up on everyone around you speaking Standard Mandarin. Here's why:

In December 2004, the first survey of language use in the People's Republic of China revealed that only 53% of its population, about 700 million people, could communicate in Standard Mandarin. (China Daily) A survey by South China Morning Post released in September 2006 gave the same result. This 53% is defined as a passing grade above 3-B (ie. error rate lower than 40%) of the Evaluation Exam. Another survey in 2003 by the China National Language And Character Working Committee shows, if mastery of Standard Mandarin is defined as Grade 1-A (an error rate lower than 3%), the percentages as follows are: Beijing 90%, Shanghai 3%, Tianjin 25%, Guangzhou 0.5%, Dalian 10%, Xi'an 12%, Chengdu 1%, Nanjing 2%. Consequently, foreign learners of Mandarin usually opt to learn at Beijing, although learning grammar and writing is not confined to that area.

This is from Wikipedia, and verifies my experience in China. I've never been to Northern China, not to mention Beijing, (I study in Hangzhou, technically considered Southern China) and my pronunciation is standard. At the risk of repeating what's been said many times in other threads, one's goal in studying Chinese is to be able to speak with other Chinese, and that includes the 700 million that can't communicate in Standard Mandarin. Having said that, there will most likely be people who you'll never understand. But if the grades they are referring to in the article above are the ones used to judge TV news announcers, then it's very strict, and perhaps not the best way to understand how widespread standard Mandarin is within China. It is a very real danger for one's ear to be so attuned to Standard Mandarin that you can't understand people with medium accents. Exposing one's ear to accents is a good thing, even when one is learning. Just make sure that you learn and use the correct pronunciation, which can be done in areas where Standard Mandarin isn't widespread.

[Valich]

I have been to every major city in China and Xiamen is the cleanist and the most tourist accessible. It has been given numerous awards for its beauty and culture and economy - one of china's five Special Economic Zones. Still, unless you have studied some Chinese, you will have problems getting around in any city that you go to, except maybe the small villages. Are you prepared to adapt to a different culture and lifestyle? This is a necessity in any place in China. Do not expect the same conveniences that you can easily get in the states or in Europe. Yes there are discos and bars but you may be the only foreigner there. To live in China requires both cultural and change-of-living adaptability and occasionally inconveniences, like power outages, misunderstandings in translation, taking the wrong bus to an unexpected location, and many other different cultural nuances. Good luck and have fun - enjoy!