Several questions about 哪里哪里

[dsrguru]

I first came across this phrase in FSI in the following context:

甲：你的中国话很好。

乙：哪里哪里。我就会说一点点。

I was wondering if 哪里哪里 is literally "where where" or its own phrase. By that I mean would a 北京人, to decline a compliment, say 哪儿哪儿 or still 哪里哪里? MDBG defines 哪里哪里 as "there is nothing to pardon / you flatter me," but interestingly enough it gives the traditional characters as 哪里哪里 instead of 哪裡哪裡 (also mentioned here), suggesting that it is probably its own phrase and that a 北京人 would still say 哪里哪里 rather than 哪儿哪儿. Is this right? I looked through some old posts here, but I didn't find any that answered that. However, I did find mention of 哪里哪里 being outdated (here). Is that true? Because I also saw suggestions to use it to deny a compliment (e.g. here), although come to think of it other posts in that last thread also suggest it might not be so common anymore. Is 谢谢 polite enough nowadays?

[renzhe]

I'm pretty sure that 哪里哪里 is a set phrase used exactly the same way across China. It probably originated in the south and spread around.

I've read that it is more acceptable nowadays to accept praise (with 谢谢), but I think that it's still more "Chinese" not to, by using 哪里, or 不当敢 (where appropriate).

I've tried both in China, and nobody seemed offended in the least when I responded politely with "谢谢". However, when I answered with "哪里", people were really impressed about my "deep understanding of Chinese culture"

[yonglin]

北京人 would still say 哪里哪里 rather than 哪儿哪儿

The official 儿-ed version of 哪里哪里 is probably more like 哪儿啊. 哪儿哪儿 sounds terribly tongue-twisting.

[Lu]

In Beijing I've heard 哪里哪里 and 哪儿啊, never 哪兒哪兒.

I have also been told 哪裡哪裡 is outdated, and usually say it half-jokingly when I use it. It still serves its purpose just fine, though. Perhaps the meaning of 哪裡哪裡 has gone from 'phrase used to decline a compliment' to 'phrase foreigners use to decline compliments on their Chinese'. Anyway it's not wrong.

My standard answer used to be 還差的遠啊, until I grew tired of that, and now I use 還可以. 謝謝 might be ok, but sometimes 客氣 is called for. Today I had the following conversation:

post office guy: 你的國語講得很好!

me: 還可以.

he: 這麼客氣!

荷蘭人的國語都講得這麼好嗎?

me, smiling: 只有我.

he: 一點也不謙虛!

So apparently I was supposed to deny it to the end.

[monto]

There is a joke with 哪里哪里, of a poor interpreter.

During a meeting of Chinese official and his wife with foreigner.....

Foregner: Your wife is very beautiful.

Interpreter: 您妻子很漂亮。

Official: 哪里哪里.

I: Where, where?

F: (a little bit puzzled, but finally) Everwhere.

I: 哪都漂亮。

O: 不见得，不见得。

I: You can't see, you can't see.

F: mmmm......, I see.

[dsrguru]

Thanks, guys. So to summarize, 谢谢 isn't always proper, and while 哪里哪里 might be a little outdated, it still gets the point across. And 哪里哪里 isn't specific to non-儿化 dialects of Mandarin. Does anyone know if MDBG and this post are correct about 哪里哪里 being the traditional form even though "where where" would obviously be 哪裡哪裡?

[yonglin]

哪里哪里 being the traditional form even though "where where" would obviously be 哪裡哪裡?

Actually, I highly doubt it. I think that until recently, many machine-type converters simplified->traditional has issues with 里 since it's a 1-to-2 mapping: both 里 and 裡 exist in the traditional character set, but they mean different things.

[dsrguru]

Do you think it's likely that both MDBG and the New Practical Chinese Reader had the exact same typo? Actually, come to think of it, it's possible that MDBG gets its vocabulary at least in part from the NPCR...

Edit: A Google search for site:mdbg.net (npcr OR (new practical chinese reader)) returned no results.

[yonglin]

Actually, I have no idea what MDBG is, but NPCR is published by a Mainland publishing house, implying that they are probably not greatest authority on the usage of traditional characters. I've actually seen quite a few typos in NPCR.

Finally, searching for "哪裡哪裡“ and "哪里哪里” respectively under the .tw top domain on any major search engine might give you a pointer as well.

[dsrguru]

Good suggestion. A Google search for site:.tw ("哪裡哪裡" OR "哪里哪里") returned 9460 results with the first ten all 哪裡哪裡. Searching for site:.tw ("哪里哪里" OR "哪裡哪裡") instead yielded different results, but that's understandable since some .tw might have simplified characters on some page somewhere. The important thing to note is that 哪裡哪裡 was found frequently, implying that it's probably the correct traditional form.

MDBG is just an online dictionary by the way.

[Lu]

哪裡 in itself means 'where' (where would you get the idea that my Chinese is good); 哪里 in traditional means something like 'which village', which makes no sense at all as far as I can tell. I'd say it's a typo.

When typing (in Taiwan, in traditional), my input system gives me either 哪裡 or 那裡 when I type nali, never 哪里.

When searching for 哪里 in the .tw domain, the first twenty results are split between sites that are simplified anyway, and forums and blogs and such things, that are more prone to typos than an official website.

[skylee]

The important thing to note is that 哪裡哪裡 was found frequently, implying that it's probably the correct traditional form.

Good observation.

I think 你太客氣了 can be used instead of 哪裏哪裏.

[monto]

哪里哪里 = 哪裡哪裡 = 哪裏哪裏. All are same thing. next to it is :

(您)过奖了. (literally "you have over praised me)

[muyongshi]

I have also been hearing more and more young people who simply respond by saying 还好吧. Like if you say you do such and such really well, they will just make the neutral comment 还好吧. Kind of reaching a middle ground between the west of just accepting the compliment and the older/traditionals that would flat out deny the compliment.