gasoline prices

[kudra]

We were talking about gas/petrol prices here at work.

Can someone give me the current price for gasoline in Beijing, Shanghai, or Guangzhou?

I assume prices in China are quoted rmb per liter, but I can convert.

currently gas is about $4 per gallon in Chicago, or plugging the following string into google

4 USD per gallon in USD per litre

4 (U.S. dollars per US gallon) = 1.05668821 U.S. dollars per litre

or

4 USD per gallon in RMB per litre

4 (U.S. dollars per US gallon) = 7.39103029 Chinese yuan per litre

Thanks.

[cdn_in_bj]

It's around 5.30 RMB/L here for mid-grade gas. It was under 5 RMB/L not too long ago.

[monto]

It's around 5.30 RMB/L here for mid-grade gas.

By the way, how is gasoline classified in USA, low grade, mid grade and high grade?

It is by octane value in China, such as gasoline 90# (not seen in Beijing now), 93#, 97# and 98#. Around 5.30 RMB/L is for 93#.

[flameproof]

If you are interested in "Greater China", in Hong Kong regular is HK$15.93/L today. That makes a gallon price of US$7.72

BTW, for the outside usa people, 1 US gallon = 3.78541178 liters

[cdn_in_bj]

By the way, how is gasoline classified in USA, low grade, mid grade and high grade? It is by octane value in China, such as gasoline 90# (not seen in Beijing now), 93#, 97# and 98#. Around 5.30 RMB/L is for 93#.

Yes, the price I gave was for 93# as that's what I fill up with. I'm pretty sure I've seen some gas stations here that have 90#, but now that I think about it, not too many.

The US uses octane ratings, but it's calculated differently from China and Europe so you can't compare them directly. I believe a 93# rating in China is equivalent to a US 89 octane rating - that's why I referred to it as "mid-grade".

[monto]

I believe a 93# rating in China is equivalent to a US 89 octane rating

Thanks. I thought octane value is internationally the same.

Still believe the idea is the same all over the world, but the testing methods maybe differ and so the results.

[cdn_in_bj]

Thanks. I thought octane value is internationally the same.

Still believe the idea is the same all over the world, but the testing methods maybe differ and so the results.

The US and Canada uses an average of two octane ratings, RON and MON, whereas Europe and China uses just the single RON rating which happens to be the higher of the two.

See the section entitled "Measurement methods" on the following page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating

[monto]

I see.

RON > MON, and so

RON > (RON + MON)/2

[cdn_in_bj]

It's around 5.30 RMB/L here for mid-grade gas. It was under 5 RMB/L not too long ago.

As of midnight last night, the price of 93# grade gas has been raised from 5.34 RMB/L to 6.20 RMB/L!

There was a chain SMS going around yesterday "warning" of the price increase, many people weren't sure if it was true or not. I happened upon the "news" last night when I found myself out of gas and got stuck in a huge lineup at a gas station (everyone trying to fill up before the price goes up).

Even though I drive and will now have to pay 16% more for gas, I view this price increase as being good news for several reasons which should be obvious. And the effect has already been seen in a drop of crude oil prices, as the world markets anticipate that this price increase will ease the demand for oil.

[flameproof]

The price increase in China may INCREASE demand, because it makes petrol more available and refineries have now more incentives to produces it. The reason for the long truck lines before was that many petrol stations were not supplied any diesel fuel.

Drives may will promise to drive less now - for the rest of this week. Then it's back to as ever.

In Hong Kong it's now HK$16.58 (January 2007 was 12.18 )

[gougou]

The price increase in China may INCREASE demand

I doubt that. It might increase consumption, but demand? Hardly.

In the long-run, it should be able to decrease demand. Not sure whether the 18% now are enough, but just look at what is happening in the US - plenty of people trading in their SUV's for Priuses.

[flameproof]

Keep in mind that China is a developing country and that the number of cars is increasing rapidly. Alone in Beijing there are 1000 new car registrations every day (so I read).

I am not sure a higher price will change patterns. Now in the USA there is lots of talk because of the price shock. Once the "shock" become normality driving patterns are back. US cars will become more efficient, but they are technologically 25 years behind anyway and it's about time.......

[roddy]

There's also talk of a fuel tax which would have an impact. Wouldn't exactly be popular.

[cdn_in_bj]

The price increase in China may INCREASE demand, because it makes petrol more available and refineries have now more incentives to produces it. The reason for the long truck lines before was that many petrol stations were not supplied any diesel fuel.

What you've described is an increase in SUPPLY, not demand. And if the supply/demand curve was previously not at equilibrium (under supply), then I agree this will increase overall consumption. But this is offset somewhat by the price increase, which will DECREASE demand.

Also, are you saying that those trucks which had problems finding diesel fuel would actually have stopped running, rather than trying other stations?

Drives may will promise to drive less now - for the rest of this week. Then it's back to as ever.

I do agree that it's probably not going to have that great of an impact on those who already have and can afford to maintain a car.

But it should persuade a few out of the 1000-per-day future new car owners to think twice about their decision.

In Hong Kong it's now HK$16.58 (January 2007 was 12.18 )

Ouch!

========================================================

Well, I've just gotten back from lunch and this topic came up in conversation. I pretty much got shot down by my peers. Their arguments were that, contrary to what you may hear, Chinese gas companies aren't losing money, they just aren't making as much as they could. And that China has large gas reserves and is not as affected by OPEC prices. Well I know this last part is false, as China is highly dependent on oil imports though I don't know how much exactly (I read somewhere that it was over 30%, but that was a while ago). They also stated that you cannot compare prices here with western countries and say that gas is cheap here once you take salary differences into account.

Anyways, there are definitely strong reactions to the price increase, and it's not surprising.

[gato]

Also, are you saying that those trucks which had problems finding diesel fuel would actually have stopped running, rather than trying other stations?

Yes. There have been long truck lines around the country at least since mid-last year. I was surprised when I saw all these trucks sitting still. It must have been contributed to rising food prices.

Their arguments were that, contrary to what you may hear, Chinese gas companies aren't losing money, they just aren't making as much as they could. And that China has large gas reserves and is not as affected by OPEC prices.

SinoPec (中石化) is mainly a refiner. It buys oil from others (including imports) at international prices, refines it into gasoline and diesel and sells it at below-market prices (1/3 to 1/2 of international price) in China. It is losing a lot of money and has been receiving big subsidies from the government.

PetroChina (中石油) has its own oil supply. When it sells diesel/gas refined from its oil reserve, it does not really lose money even it's at below market price. It just makes less money than it otherwise would. The subsidy it has been receiving is much smaller. However, China's own oil reserve is not enough to meet its demand, and I believe even PetroChina imports oil.

Many smaller regional refineries around China that don't have their oil supply and don't receive big subsidies from the government have basically shut down since the price for oil is much higher than the price for gasoline and diesel.

See

http://www.platts.com/Oil/News/9875181.xml

2008-05-27

Sinopec gets $1 billion crude imports subsidy for April: report

Hong Kong (Platts)--27May2008

China Petroleum and Petrochemical Corporation, or Sinopec, received Yuan

7.1 billion ($1.02 billion) of subsidy from the Chinese central government to

subsidize the losses the group incurred in its crude oil refining business in

April, Chinese state media Xinhua news agency reported Tuesday.

The monthly subsidy is in addition to the government's decision of

refunding the two oil giants the entire 17% value-added tax levied on some of

their gasoil and gasoline imports in the second quarter of this year.

The VAT refund will apply to as much as 1 million mt of gasoline and 2.5

million mt of gasoil imported by PetroChina and Sinopec over April-June.

CANNOT COVER HALF OF REFINING LOSSES

But even with the crude import subsidy and the VAT refund for oil

products imports, Xinhua cited the Su as saying that the total amount Sinopec

received from the government "cannot even cover half of the losses Sinopec's

refining segment incur."

[flameproof]

I had moved in and around Shenzhen yesterday. Petrol prices were up. The HUGE truck lines at some petrol stations were still there. No truck lines meant no diesel for sale.

China imports an ever increasing amount of oil since 1993, and I guess it will rather increase then decrease in the future. No matter how much they can drill, it won't be enough. And whatever they find won't last long too long as they reserves are limited.

From what I found China produces about 50% of their own consumption.

http://news.mongabay.com/2007/0508-china.html

[bhchao]

I found a way to get more miles per gallon is to refill your tank when it reaches half full. The engine runs most efficiently at half tank or more. Efficiency drops drastically when the tank is only 1/3 full.

Also I try to pump gas during the early morning or late at night. Gasoline is more dense at cooler temperatures, and filling your tank when the weather is hot increases the rate of evaporation.

[mr.stinky]

"I found a way to get more miles per gallon is to refill your tank when it reaches half full."

how the heck do you manage that? if it's true that the amount in the package affects

effeciency of the unit transferred to, does this mean if i only eat the first half of the

bag of potato chips, i'll gain less weight than eating the last half? we can call it the

glass-half-full-paradigm-diet.

****ok, i see now......when you get down to 1/3 tank, you start sucking water and sludge

into the engine. the weight of the fuel is insignificant compared to that of the vehicle,

so that shouldn't affect mileage (ummm,,,,is this kilometerage outside the usa?).

[flameproof]

"I found a way to get more miles per gallon is to refill your tank when it reaches half full."

No. Completely wrong. Your efficiency is LOWEST with a full tank because of the added weight. Efficiency is getting higher with less weight in the tank.

Also I try to pump gas during the early morning or late at night. Gasoline is more dense at cooler temperatures,

The petrol station tanks are underground and don't really get effected. If they are overground the difference will even out since they will store the days heat for a couple of days.

To avoid evaporation keep the lid on.

Also, don't use any lighter to check how much petrol is still in the tank.

[bhchao]

Here is what I found on my recent trip: 49 miles per gallon on the first 1/2 tank of gas starting from full capacity. 33 miles per gallon on the second 1/2 tank of gas starting from half capacity.

I got 105 miles from a full tank before my gas gauge inched down one notch. I noticed that when my gas gauge dropped below half, just driving 42 miles at the same speed will cause the gauge to inch down.

The gauge lowered faster from a half tank compared to driving on a full tank at the same speed.

I suspect this has to do with the vapor pressure. More vapors evaporate in a half tank to fill the void in the tank.