contract with head tenant, not landlord

[huaqiao06]

hi does anyone know if it's legal to sublet an apartment in beijing from the existing tenant, rather than with the landlord? I have an offer to sign a 私人协议（无盖章）, i.e. a private 'unsealed' contract for 3 months plus one month's deposit.

apart from the issue of registering with the police, i would feel safer signing with the apartment owner.

But i've found in my price range (below 2000RMB/month) landlords seem reluctant to sign with a foreigner, given the taxes and the trouble of registering with the cops

[gougou]

I'm not sure about legal requirements, but our contract (signed with the landlord) explicitly prohibits us subletting the flat to anyone else, so check the tenants contract for that. But then again, they filled in the number of people living in our place as 3 (with a maximum of 6) while knowing that there would be only two, so I guess there's plenty of room for interpretation.

[imron]

As long as you can register with police, I wouldn't worry about it. Make sure to put in the 私人协议 that it's dependent on being able to register.

[huaqiao06]

thanks for the quick responses.

i take it then that the PSB should accept a 私人协议 without an agent's seal. Still I think I'll go down to the station and check first...

Is this sort of contract legally binding? e.g. if the landlord showed up and tried to evict me could i rely on a document signed with the head tenant?

Others have told me that landlords incur both a rental tax and a foreigner tax, and that this has to be paid to the condo's management office before you go to the PSB for your dengjibiao?

I'm not too happy with the head tenant's request for 3 months' rent up front, and I'd rather give the deposit to the landlord rather than her.

her head lease expires Sept 8 so i assume she just wants someone to fill the room quickly, but better safe then sorry.

also she wants 120RMB a month for broadband connection, anyone think this is extortionate?

[roddy]

I wouldn't do this unless you a) check with the police station first - and I won't be surprised if they want to check out the actual lease itself to check that tax is being paid. And B) you actually trust whoever you are signing with. If you hit problems, even if you are in the right, I don't fancy your chances of sorting it out when you've got both the landlord and the sub-letter to contend with.

Is it only for three months? That's not so bad - things can only get so bad in three months

There's no 'extra' tax for foreigners. There's a tax to be paid on property rentals, and as foreigners have to do the police station registration thing taking on a foreigner often means landlords find themselves in the taxation authorities sights, but it should be paid with Chinese tenants also. Specifically what happens is that a PSB shouldn't register you without a rental contract that has been registered at and stamped by the local government office - and to do that you need to pay up. Perhaps building management offices also handle that, I don't know.

Three months rent up front is normal in Beijing, but from the sounds of things I'd be uncomfortable. I'd deal with the landlord directly, or not at all, I think.

RMB120 for broadband might not be too far off the mark - depends what speed you've signed up for. That could be almost all the cost of a slow connection, or a part of a fast one.

[imron]

Others have told me that landlords incur both a rental tax and a foreigner tax

No, it's just that with a Chinese tenant, it's easy to pretend they're not renting out the apartment, and therefore they can skirt the tax.

Is this sort of contract legally binding?

Probably no more or less than any other sort of contract you'd sign with the landlord.

I'm not too happy with the head tenant's request for 3 months' rent up front

This is pretty standard. You'd be hard pressed to find an apartment looking for less than this.

also she wants 120RMB a month for broadband connection, anyone think this is extortionate?

If you will be the only one using the broadband connection, then this probably about the right cost (this is how much I pay per month for the connection to my apartment). If it's being used by everyone in the household, then it seems a bit cheeky for her to ask you to pay it all. You might want to check though, perhaps the apartment is on a different, more expensive plan.

[self-taught-mba]

Run! Run! Run! Even if you put it into the contract you won't get it back.

Same situation resulted in us getting a contract where we couldn't register people and had to return the apartment. Lost > 2 months rent >$1000 on this thing.

Might be better now, but others have called the police when the place they were renting refused to register them and the police basically told them they should just move!

[imron]

Well, maybe not run, run, run, but definitely don't hand over any money until you've registered with the police first

[heifeng]

Well, maybe not run, run, run, but definitely don't hand over any money until you've registered with the police first

I agree with Imron here. If they are willing to take your money, they should be willing to make sure you can get properly registered.

hahah yeah, it's funny how that property tax gets to be known as the 'foreigner' tax and how foreigners end up paying it when it should be paid in the first place.

Also, I've rented from tenants before but each time I had to go with the actual owner to the PSB to register...and this was at 3 different PSB's in Beijing

[gougou]

Also, I've rented from tenants before but each time I had to go with the actual owner to the PSB to register...and this was at 3 different PSB's in Beijing

I've subrented a room once, completely without contract, and at the PSB it was enough that my room mate said that I now lived with them. He didn't have to show his contract nor even his own registration (even though they might still have known him from the previous time he went to register himself). That, however, was over a year ago, not sure whether it'd still work that way.

[self-taught-mba]

I've rented from tenants before but each time I had to go with the actual owner to the PSB to register

Exactly. So if the landlord doesn't know . . .as your description hints at . . .

The tenant can't really force him.

[imron]

Again, I think this really just depends on the PSB. Some require the owner, with others, a current tenant is enough.

[huaqiao06]

i've arranged for the agent from whom the head tenant is renting that room to change the contract to my name.

getting whacked with a 200RMB 'contract fee' but i think it's worth it for the security, albeit i'm told agents aren't much help if the plumbing goes bust etc

the head tenant's already paid rent for the quarter so i'll still be giving her money, i'll arrange for all 3 parties to be present to settle everything including PSB registration

given that the other 2 rooms are occupied by complete strangers, I might see how the agent feels about changing the lock on my door...