Converting F visa to residence permit. In Beijing. In August 2008.

[hidden12345]

Sorry if this seems like a thread hijack, but I have a semi-related question:

I already have a 60 day multi-entry F visa that expires in Dec. 2008. If I go back to Beijing in August, can I get it converted to a 1 yr. Residence Permit IN COUNTRY? Is it hard to find sponsorship for this process? (I've never gotten a residence permit before, so please forgive my ignorance.)

[roddy]

Sorry if this seems like a thread hijack

So start a new topic, they're free

Given the current climate, I wouldn't bank on being able to do this. Find the employer you want to work with, or the school you want to study at, and get the documents you need to get a X or Z visa in your home country. If they can't give you those documents, I doubt they can help you once you get to Beijing either.

[hidden12345]

Which means if I come in August, I have to leave and re-enter every 60 days, albeit without having to apply for a new visa.

Just to clear up any irrational thinking: 1.) F multi-entry visas are not being canceled upon entering China, therein rendering it as a single-visit visa? 2.) I do not need to show proof of return flight or hotels at customs, correct? (I've never had to do this on previous visits to the PRC, but it seems like China is going into lockdown at a time they advertise as their "coming out" party. Ironic, but then again, China always is. 3.) Finally, my visa expires Dec. 18, if I renter on Dec. 17 I don't need to leave and reapply until Feb. 15, at which time, policy should return to status quo.

Please advise.

[roddy]

1) Certainly haven't heard of that happening. Seem to be the case that if you already have your visa in hand you're find - it's extending or changing that causes problems.

2) Again, haven't heard of it happening - the assumption would normally be that any requirements were met when you got the visa.

3) I would have thought a 60-day entry F visa expiring on Dec 18 would expire Dec 18, regardless of your last date of entry.

[hidden12345]

Thanks for the insight, Roddy. This last point is one that remains to be cleared up. Allow me to rephrase for anyone else reading:

Does the expiration date of a visa override your last date of entry? For instance, If I enter two days before the visa expires (the given term that defines the life of the visa), and the visa permits a single 60 day visit, would I be overstaying my visit by day 3 or can I exercise the full 60 days alloted to me thereunder?

[BrandeX]

it does not, your visa expires in exact 60 days regardless of when you come in or out. after that you have to purchase a new one, even if you just crosses the border into china a few days before it expires. with an M visa you can go in and out as much as you want but once the 60 days (in your case) is up, you are expired and time to apply/buy another.

[imron]

You would be overstaying your visa. The visa allows for up to 60 days per visit (which means that less is ok) within the validity of the visa.

Edit: I'm a little confused. Are you talking about the expiry date of the visa, or the entry date of the visa? If it's the entry date, then you still have 60 days. If it's an expiry date, then you obviously only have to the expiry date.

[hidden12345]

Brandex and Imron both made contradicting claims, so I will elaborate on this to ameliorate any further confusion.

The multi entry 60 day F visa was purchased on Dec.18 2007. It states that I may enter the PRC as many times as I would like, each with a maximum stay of 60 days, until the date of expiration dated one year from the date of issuance (Dec. 18, 2008. )

Questionable scenario: I enter (legally) on Dec. 16, 2008; stay for 60 days; leave on Feb. 12, 2009. Will I have overstayed my visa?

[imron]

each with a maximum stay of 60 days, until the date of expiration dated one year from the date of issuance

That answers your question then. You only get until the expiration date, and then it's expired. Your last date of entry is not important, because you don't get 60 days each stay, you get "a maximum of 60 days". This could be 60 days, and it could also be 1 day.

[hidden12345]

Got it; thank you for clearing that up, Imron. Do you have any insight on being able to convert F visas to resident permits inside Beijing? (read: not having to return to country of citizenship/origin)

[hazyrum]

Just chiming in. I think you might have misunderstood the terms of the visa. As I understand it you have an F visa, with multiple [unlimited] entries, valid until Dec 2008, 60 days per entry. What this means is that your visa is valid to enter China from now until December 2008. Since you have multiple entries, that means you can enter and exit as many times as you wish. The 60 days part is just the maximum duration of each stay beginning the day you enter. This means if you entered the very last day of your visa in December 2008, you are allowed to stay in China for another 60 days. Hope this clears it up =)

[adrianlondon]

This means if you entered the very last day of your visa in December 2008, you are allowed to stay in China for another 60 days.

I don't think it does. I believe in that case you have 24 hours to turn around and get back out ;)

It's a maximum stay of 60 days, and the visa is valid (unless it says "entry before") until the date stamped on it. You can't (ok, you can, but shouldn't) overstay your visa.

[889]

If you have an F visa which states "Valid Until [date]" with no limitation on length of stay, then you must exit China by [date].

However, if you have an F visa which states "Enter Before [date]" and which allows a limited stay of 30 or 60 "Days After Entry," then you can stay for the full 30 or 60 days in China, even if you enter on the last day permitted for entry under the visa.

I checked this interpretation some time ago with a PSB office and have in fact left China after expiration of the "Enter Before" period, but before expiration of the period of stay, and have not had a problem.

The OP can, though, double-check by asking at any PSB Exit-Entry Bureau office.

[imron]

@899 There is also a third type of visa that allows multiple stays within a certain time period, but the duration of each stay is limited. This appears to be the kind of visa that hidden12345 has. It is a one year visa, with multiple stays, however each stay can be no longer than 60 days.

So, his visa is valid between 17 Dec 2007 and 17 Dec 2008, and he can come and go multiple times during that period, but only for a maximum of 60 days each time. Once it passes the expiry date (note, this is not the entry date), then it is invalid.

@hidden12345, given the differences of opinion here, and the confusion over what type of visa you actually have, it is probably worth verifying the situation with your closest Chinese embassy/consulate, or with the PSB if you are currently in China.

[roddy]

left China after expiration of the "Enter Before" period

But the OP here is talking about China after the visa has expired. The 'Enter Before' date becomes entirely irrelevant once you enter the country.

[domrom]

Both I and my son have one year multiple entry F visas issued in Canada.The Visa clearly states the "enter before date" as basically the last day meaning 365 days after the issuance of the Visa.The duration of each stay is 60 days after entry so technically you can stay 60 days following the enter date.There is no "expiry date" on our visa There is an "enter before date" which is 365 days adfter the issue date.SO technically you can go in and out of China for a period of 14 months on what we refer to as a one year multiple entry visa.

This was confirmed to us loud and clear from the Visa issuing officer at the Embassy.So pls read your visa.If it is as ours then you can stay 60 days after entry...

We are 100% sure of this