Zai4 Nar3 and Shi4 Zai4 Nar4

[emmenite]

Hi everyone, I am now taking an elementary audio Chinese course and am enjoying it immensely, but I seem to have run across a strange grammatical rule that seems completely illogical to me. I would be grateful if somebody could provide me a bit of clarification.

When asking for directions, why is it that we ask where a certain location is, we simply say "zai4 nar3" but when we ask if it is located in a particular place we say "shi4" as in "shi4 zai4 nar4 ma?"

I was thinking that perhaps we only use the extra "shi4" in yes-or-no questions, but maybe that is not the case. Could someone please explain to me how I am to know when to correctly use "zai4" and "shi4 zai4"?

Sorry that I couldn't explain this situation a bit more clearly, but thanks for the help!

[mira_mio]

I see those are actually two different words, "zai nar?"(在哪儿?) and "shi zai nar ma?"(是在那儿吗?)

"哪na3儿" meaning "where"

"那na4儿" meaning "there"

actually "shi4" can be used or omitted in both cases. "shi4" is something like "be" in English (is am are was were), it's used very widely, wherever you make a statement. it can even be used together with other verbs in casual conversational Chinese.

"shi4" can often be omitted.

For example: how did you get here? I walked here. 你怎么来的? 我(是shi4)走路来的.

and the example you gave. Where is place A? A zai4 nar3? but you can also say "A shi4 zai nar?"

Is A there? A shi4 zai4 nar4 ma? and this shi4 can be omitted.

[BrandeX]

"nar" lol, it's like a joke amongst my chinese friends here. Use na-li instead, unless you are moving to Beijing.

[mira_mio]

yes. Nar is very much nothern. and being a Chinese I can not even pronounce it...unfortunately many textbooks are written and published in Beijing.

(after how many posts will the restriction on me be lifted? =.=)

[roddy]

(after how many posts will the restriction on me be lifted? =.=)

About three posts ago . . .

[mira_mio]

ooops sorry

[imron]

"nar" lol, it's like a joke amongst my chinese friends here.

That's ok, the whole southern shi/si zhi/zi chi/ci is a joke around here too

[HSC]

I just came from Chongqing and I heard a lot of 'er' there. I was also on a Yangzi cruise and heard a lot of 'er' hua. I'm not sure if it's because there are a lot of tourists around.

On the other hand, the shi sounding like si is rampant both there and in Shanghai, where I'm writing this post from. When I ask "duo shao qian" and they say "s(h)i kuai", I have to use my finger gestures for "10" to determine if they are telling me 4 or 10 yuan. Arrrrrrgh!!!!

[adrianlondon]

Just give them 4 kuai and then argue ;)

[mira_mio]

how many posts do i have to make before i can have a "profile"? :wall:wall:wall:wall:wall:wall:wall:wall:oops:

[adrianlondon]

You appear to have an issue avoiding walls.

[roddy]

One, I think. And any more questions can go here . . .

[mira_mio]

actually i was doing that on purpose. i mean banging my head against the wall (with emoticons, not for real...)

:oops: alright now i've officially made a fool of myself

but in my defence, I think this website needs a clearer interface. I really couldn't find my "control panel" :oops:

[emmenite]

So to say where is it I could say "zai4 nar3 (or na-li, whatever)" just as correctly as I could say "shi4 zai4 nar3?" The same goes for shi4 in "is it there," I am guessing.

Also, even if both ways of doing this are grammatically correct, would a certain usage in a certain situation sound strange to a native speaker and immediately expose me as a foreigner, or are both sentence structures completely "correct" in all situations?

Thanks a lot for the help, you guys! I wish my program would have clarified this for me.