Non-Chinese Chinese languages

[wushijiao]

Just wondering....has anybody out there learned, while in China, a non-Chinese language ( not putonghua, Wu, Yue, Hakka...etc), such as Korean in Jilin, Uygur in Xinjiang, Mongolian in Inner Mongolia, Tibetan or any other 少数民族语言?

(I sometimes think I'd like to learn one of these languages. I used to study Russian for four years, so I went to Harbin to see if it had a huge Russian presence, like the guidebooks say. In the back of my mind, I imagined learning both putonghua and re-learning Russian in 东北． But I only spotted a Russian or two, and they might have been tourists.)

Anyway, I'd like to hear about your experiences.

[Alleluia]

No, but I tried learning Lhasa Tibetan at university. It was horrible! The worst, most annoying language I've ever studied! Had to drop the course, couldn't manage it... But Korean or Mongolian could be more interesting. And if you have an interest in Tibet (and thus at least some motivation to learn the horrible language, which I lacked), maybe it's different for you.

[wushijiao]

Well I'd been thinking mainly about learning Korean or Uygur.

Korean because I think the contrast between a hermetic 1984ish totalitarian country and its capitalistic, highly fashionable, and Internet wired twin country is amazing. Sooner or later, North Korea will collapse and I'd like to be able to fluently read and understand Korean when it happens. I also think there might be some crossover with Chinese to help me learn it faster.

Right now I speak English, Spanish, and Chinese: three languages with giant populations and huge economic might. So, I'd like to learn a language that is either threatened, unpopular or has some minority status, like Uygur. Learning a language always sheds new light on how those speakers view the world. Maybe it would be good to put my time where my mouth is and study and a language that is "under threat of extinction from the brutal forces of globalization, homogenization, cultural imperialism" and all that blah. Plus, I love Xinjiang food.

I think that advantage of these languages is also that I could continue studying Chinese at the same time.

Of course, I really should focus on consolidating and improving the Chinese I have now, instead of thinking about these other things.

[lzd]

wushijiao and everyone else, if you're interested in Russian, i'd be glad to provide you any information you like in exchange for some help in my first steps in Chinese.

[Yuchi]

I've heard that Korean and the writing system is quite easy to learn, my friends in Seoul have only been there for about a quarter of a year (they're 11-12 years old, more like children of my parent's friends), and they've picked up alot of korean.

[shibo77]

Right! The Korean alphabet, Hangeul, is very easy to learn. If you really want to learn it, afew hours would probably be enough. It is very logical, the symbols are all simplified pictures of one's mouth/tongue when one pronounce that particular sound.

But I never got the motivation to learn the language, which was the important part.

-Shibo

[woodcutter]

Well, I learn both Mandarin and Korean. I never met anyone who learned their Korean in Yanbian county though, aside from the locals of course. It's a bit easier to do in Korea!

The alphabet is easy, but I think Korean is pretty tough going. Very few English speaking foreigners get very far with it. The grammar is difficult, and the words are often based on Chinese, only with no tones to help you out.

[shibo77]

Well, if you are in a Chinese linguistic major in a Chinese university, you will probably have to learn one or two ethnic minority languages. Most people choose Mongolian or Qiangic. The course can be dropped only after one year, but if you want to pursue a graduate degree, then you will have to become near fluent in Tibetan and maybe Qiangic. Korean and Russian, they are not much to Chinese linguistic studies, but many knows different amounts of Korean or Japanese from self-study.

-Shibo

[pazu]

I'm learning the language of Kinh (Jing, 京) now.

It's also known as Vietnamese...

I've tried learning some Tibetan language in Dharamsala, but it's not easy... though I "got" (according to the way of Tibetan thinking) my Tibetan name from the Lama... I better not to mention his name here. haha.

[shibo77]

Chao! In Vietnam, do they refer to themselves as 京Kinh as we refer to ourselves as 汉Han?

-Shibo

[pazu]

When I was in a minority village, I asked my friend's racial group, he told me he was Kinh.

I didn't talk much about the term "kinh", I don't know if they prefer to call themselves using this term or not. You'd better ask NNT.

[nnt]

In Vietnam, do they refer to themselves as 京Kinh as we refer to ourselves as 汉Han?

京Kinh (Jing ) just means "people from the Capital City" Kinh Đô 京都 vs people from the Thượng Du 上游 (higher) regions.

Used administratively to designate the majority of the Vietnamese people. The term "người Việt" or "người Việt Nam" for "Vietnamese" are much more popular.

[Ian_Lee]

A lot of American military personnels can speak fluent Korean.

My beginning Korean teacher was a White American male.

IMHO Yanbian may not be a favorable place to learn Korean due to deteriorating law and order (recently there was even bank robbery conducted by North Korean soldiers who fled to China side of the border).

Yonsei University in Seoul offers splendid summer Korean language course for foreigners.

[Ian_Lee]

If you learn Mongolian in PRC, you got to think twice.

The Mongolian language you will study is the traditional Mongolian script which is not used in Mongolia Republic and Buryatia Republic (Russia).

The latters use the Cryllic script. So if you just learn traditional Mongolian in China, it may render you illiterate if you travel to the latter places.

[geek_frappa]

The worst, most annoying language I've ever studied!

i'm sorry you had a bad experience. perhaps, you will have better luck in the future...

[ala]

The Mongolian language you will study is the traditional Mongolian script which is not used in Mongolia Republic and Buryatia Republic (Russia).

The latters use the Cryllic script. So if you just learn traditional Mongolian in China' date=' it may render you illiterate if you travel to the latter places.[/quote']

Isn't Mongolian going Latin soon? Making the other two soon irrelevant.

[shibo77]

Mongolian was written in Arabic, Chinese, Cyrillic, Latin... The Socialist Republic government wants to bring back the traditional alphabet now and eventually use it side-by-side with Cyrillic or Latin.

If you're learning as a Chinese linguistic requirement, then you are learning with Chahar dialect written in traditional Mongolian 'Phagspa syllabary only after three or four years of learning the language. One starts with Cyrillic or Latin.

If you're learning as a foreign language, then you are learning with Khalkha dialect written in the Cyrillic alphabet or the Latin alphabet.

If you know the traditional 'Phagspa syllabary, changing into Cyrillic or LAtin alphabet should take only a few days. But the main problem is the dialect spoken in the Socialist Republic of Mongolia is a conservative classical language with lots of influences from Tibetan. For Chinese linguistic students, what is more important is the dialect on the borders of the Great Wall, where it had more influence on Chinese. Chahar in the east, Ordo in the west.

-Shibo

[bhchao]

Is the Manchu written script still used in parts of northeastern China today, or have people of Manchu descent completely replaced their former script with the Chinese written language?

[geek_frappa]

manchu written script is still an important part of chinese history... in some places you will see chinese and manchu written side by side ...

i don't know about written language today, though...

[ala]

have people of Manchu descent completely replaced their former script with the Chinese written language?

>99% of people of Manchu descent don't speak any Manchu, most haven't in generations. There are a few villages and communities that still do, and they would use the Manchu script. A lot of Manchu speakers learned it for academic (linguistics, history) reasons. There are maybe a thousand Manchu speakers today. This is confirmation that language and ethnicity do not necessarily parallel, especially when we are talking about Chinese history.