出淤泥而 - when to use, common, and 不然?

[Scoobyqueen]

Going through my notes, I was reviewing the above expression. I have noted it down as

出淤泥而不然, but am not sure if "不然" should be included in this expression.

I understand its meaning and its lotus analogy but I could only think of one situation in which this expression would be useful ie the example quoted: a person living amongst dishonest people/family but despite of this negative influence turns out to be an honest person himself. Are there no other situations in which you would use出淤泥而? This leads to the question is it used in everday language?

Any comments appreciated.

[Annaliu]

In Chinese, 出淤泥而不染 use as a commendatory word.

It is a idiom, its original means is the water lily comes out from silt but still cleanness.

Generally, it used as figuration. It is compared to a person who still keeps probity,blameless, honesty character when he is drew into the contrary conditions.

出 is a verb, 淤泥 is objective, 而 is conj, 不 is a privative, 染 is a verb.

It should be used as a phrase.

For example,

这个班的学生都很淘气，只有他很听话，出淤泥而不染。

There are all naughty child in this class, except him, 出淤泥而不染。

[necroflux]

Great example, thanks Annaliu for your help.

[xiaocai]

"这个班的学生都很淘气，只有他很听话，出淤泥而不染。

There are all naughty child in this class, except him, 出淤泥而不染。"

这个，太严重了点吧？淘气的学生就是“淤泥”？不好不好，这个比喻一点也不好⋯⋯

[Oliver_CL]

出淤泥而不染 is not used much in daily language.

[yersi]

Is this better?

這個例子有沒有好一點兒？

父母吸毒，一天到晚留在家裡休閒，但他卻下了決心要成功，考上了大學而成為了一位百富翁。這才是出淤泥而不染。

[Scoobyqueen]

I really like this expression 出淤泥而不染 but I suspect its use may be fairly limited.

I tried to use it recently as consolation for a friend whose boyfriend had ditched her. In fact he turned out to be horrible anyway, cheating on his first wife with her, now cheating on her etc. So I said to her that she should be happy she 出淤泥而不染 but she said it didn’t fit in this context. She then gave the example of a child being born into a nasty family but turning out nice. So I guess that is its main use.

[doraemon]

This is considered quite a sophisticated expression so you wouldn't really use it in a normal conversation. However,I still think it's a really apt and fitting description of somebody who remains untainted despite being in a negative environment.

Would you say this is the opposite of 近朱者赤 近墨者黑？

[semantic nuance]

This 出淤泥而不染 reminds me of a Taiwanese phrase--壞竹出好筍.