Short philosophical phrase translated?

[userbraindamage]

Hi there.

First post, this forum seems like the place I may finally be able to answer my query!!

I enjoy philosophy, and ever since I first heard it, there is one particular quote that has stuck with me. So much so, that I would like to have it adorned as a tattoo! Pretty big step, it would be my first. As you might expect I am anxious to get the translation absolutely correct.

Someone on a philosophy forum translated the phrase for me as the following:

絶學無憂

I would be grateful if a few of you could confirm your interpretation of the above. After this I will give the name of the author and the translation as I know it!!

Would like to be sure, you know..?

If I was to get this as a tattoo, naturally I would like a good caligrapher to draw the symbols for me. Where could I find such a person, and how much should I expect to pay?

Many thanks,

C.

[renzhe]

It's not a translation from a philosophy forum, it's a quote from Dao De Jing by Lao Tzu, and (one of the) official translation(s) is "When we renounce learning we have no troubles". Here is some more information.

As for getting a tattoo, characters (not symbols) are written, not drawn. But tattoo artists can't write Chinese, so it's best to come up with a very nice template and ask them to replicate it exactly. Don't let them improvise, or "draw" or "write" anything. Give them exactly what you want and insist that they replicate it exactly. First ask a native speaker (or two, or ten) to have a good look at it to make sure the characters are properly written and have no mistakes.

You can try this site here.

[userbraindamage]

Hi, thanks for your response.

Ahh, you changed your post! I would have rather waited for a few more interpretations before revealing the source, but all the same - it is indeed from the Tao Te Ching by Lao Tzu.

The way I have read it, in several translations - and my favourite interpretation - is:

"Stop thinking, and end your problems".

I understand that symbols are written, wouldn't dream of allowing the tattooist any improvisation. I'd would like to clarify which symbols are correct, and then have a caligrapher script them artistically.

After that, I'll finalise it as a design, and only then will I go forward with the permenant vandalisation of my body.

Can anyone else confirm the meaning? If possible, could anyone provide links to the original characters and their connotations?

Many thanks,

C.

[renzhe]

Well, I wanted to make sure that my original translation was reasonably close. Some of these characters have multiple meanings and you need the context to be sure what is meant.

http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?page=worddictbasic&wdqb=%E7%B5%B6&wdrst=1

http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?page=worddictbasic&wdqb=%E5%AD%B8&wdrst=1&wddmtm=0

http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?page=worddictbasic&wdqb=%E7%84%A1&wdrst=1&wddmtm=0

http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?page=worddictbasic&wdqb=%E6%86%82&wdrst=1&wddmtm=0

The first character seems to be a Japanese variant (according to this dictionary at least), perhaps it's better to use 絕, it would prevent people from thinking it was written wrong. 絕 seems to be the more common traditional variant. I don't know for sure, I use simplified characters.

http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?dss=1&wdqchs=%E7%B5%95&wdrst=1

As for your translation, I question the translation of 學 as "thinking". Perhaps it used to have such a connotation in the old times, but I suspect that it's a very liberal translation here. The verb means to learn, to study. It comes up in words like "school", "university", "science", etc. I think that the translations amounting to "stop learning to end your troubles" are more correct. Just something to keep in mind.

And if you find a good calligrapher, keep in mind that Chinese calligraphy is likely to look different from a nice font. It has an artistic value (especially if it's done by a good calligrapher), but it's often hard to read. And given a bad calligrapher, it will look crap too. You could consider having it written in a nice looking font instead.

[userbraindamage]

Thank you very much for your help.

I have also now found this:

http://www.yellowbridge.com/onlinelit/daodejing20.php - which affirms what you have said.

It is a quotation, and as such I wouldn't like to change the symbols I use at all. However, I suppose that when all is said and done, it is the nature of the language and the context for meaning to be interpreted, so I am happy with the original.

I have also downloaded several fonts following your recommendation. Only problem is that after installed, they don't seem to change the style of the text at all in MS Word!! Will have a play about though.

C.

[renzhe]

Have you tried the link in my first post? There is an online "calligraphy" generator using a number of different fonts. You can simply paste the phrase there and get an image in a number of different styles.

[lilongyue]

Another person who posted a picture of their Chinese tattoo on this forum had a character written incorrectly by the tattoo artist. I would be horrified if this happened to me. I thought that if I ever wanted to have Chinese characters written on my body permanently I would photocopy one of those books that teaches you the stroke order of the character and give it to the person putting the tattoo on me. To someone not acquainted with Chinese characters, they are a big complicated pile of lines. Even people who have been studying Chinese mistake certain characters for others, sometimes even subconsciously superimposing strokes that aren't there onto the character in the process. This is especially true with traditional characters. For someone who can't read Chinese, it would definitely be a big help to see the character written stroke by stroke, that way would be much harder to make a mistake when applying the character to your body.