Best place to have a child - China or UK?

[GaHanna]

...for my child to be born?

Firstly, this is a fantastic site. It is useful and the posters bring with them much experience and knowledge in all things China!

My question has added complexity since although I was born in Dublin, Ireland, and hold an Irish passport complete with full visa fullfillments, I had been living in Northern Ireland since I was a child, therefore, I have dual nationality.

Now, the question! I have met a beautiful Chinese woman and have decided that indeed my future is in China with her! Of course, marriage is on the way and I am excited about this. My question is on the position of a child that I am sure we will have together. Should we have the child in Britain (we do not want to live our future life in the UK but in China).

The reason we ask, is since the child will grow up in China, we need to know if having been born in the UK is beneficial for the child in his/her further education? Is being born in the UK much better than being born in China? How does this affect the child in his/her future? I would like the child to be born in China, but my lady prefers the UK. And you know Chinese women! lol...

Anyone with thoughts and experience on this will be fully appreciated!

[markshark83]

for future educational purposes it doesnt matter where your child is born. they are still eligible for irish citizenship therefore can live in UK. and have same rights as a british citizen. since i dont know your circumstance i cant say if you can pass on your british citizenship

may aswell add that i'm also a dual irish/brit. the birthplace of my future kids wont matter to me as they will have right of citizenship of both countries no matter where they are born.

anyway, the only benefit i could see in having your future child(ren) born in UK is that its free on NHS!

[marcusat]

It's true that it will be much easier for your child to obtain Irish citizenship if born in China, than if he/she was born in Ireland and tried to get Chinese citizenship. With regards to schooling, the main problem will arise when the child wants to go to university - yet to obtain free / subsidized fees in ireland or the UK, the child must have been living here for 3 years consecutively as well as holding an EU passport so you don't need to worry about that until the kid reaches the age of 14 or 15! Most people I think would chose an Eu passport for thier child given the choice, but that is up to you!

[GaHanna]

Thank you for the reply. You must be of the same stock as me!

My question is also on the future education of any child that may come from us. You know, the child in question, would it be better born in the north (that is, the UK) and after we raise him/her in China, for her/him to take advantage of the educational system there?

Would being born in the UK be a more efficient and cheaper way for said child to continue study there?

The reason is that some see the education system better there!

[GaHanna]

Thanks Marcusat.

It is a long term idea. But I see that I would want my child to appreciate the culture of where I am from and to bring out the best of both worlds!

[foodtarget]

Here is the link to the wikipedia article on PRC nationality law:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationality_Law_of_the_People's_Republic_of_China

It sounds like as long as your wife is a Citizen of the PRC and has not obtained UK nationality or permanent residence, then your future child can claim PRC citizenship even if they are born in the UK. And if you've ever been in a Chinese hospital... I think you'd want to have your kid in the UK. After the kid is born, you could take him/her back to China. The thing is, you can't (or at least aren't supposed to) have dual citizenship, so it sounds like you would have to pick UK or Chinese. But then again I have a few friends with illegal dual citizenship, so idk. My only question is, what are the benefits of having Chinese citizenship? They don't have socialized medicine and you could probably send your kid to a good school even if they weren't a Chinese citizen. Also, based on the experiences of some of my Chinese friends, it can be very difficult for Chinese citizens to go abroad for college/graduate school. Someone else already pointed out that if your kid were a UK citizen, they could reap whatever educational benefits that entails come college time.

[markshark83]

GaHanna,

i think one of the issues would be if you can pass on your british citizenship if the child was born in china. if you claim your british citizenship through naturalization then you should be able to pass on to your child born outside UK. but if you claim British by descent then you cant pass on to a child born outside of UK.

more info here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_nationality_law#British_citizenship_by_birth_in_the_United_Kingdom

i dont see any advantage in just going to UK to give birth then moving straight back to China if your child can claim British citizenship when born in China. although it could give your wife right of abode (dont quote me on that!)

i also wonder about what they'd have to do to goto uni in UK, i doubt the unis in UK will recognise the chinese high school tests to gain admission at 18. Maybe it would be better to goto high school in UK, doing GCSEs and A-levels there. i dont know anything about the chinese education system so cant comment, but its something you'd have to take into account. maybe UCAS has info.

anway, good luck with whatever you choose!

[Rincewind]

This is an extremely complex choice and not one that can be answered simply on a web forum. I think you should consult with a lawyer, or rather 3 lawyers, one for each country involved. They can advise on the significance of the place of birth or lack of significance to the place of birth.

If you do choose China, you might want to note that several of my students have gone to Hong Kong to have their children as doing so gives the child extra rights in Hong Kong.

[Lu]

Generally I'd say that Europe is a better place for a child to grow up, and a Euro passport preferable to a Chinese (both is even better :-) ). Most European countries have better social security, better education, better health care, etc etc, than China. There is a reason Chinese parents send their kids abroad for their education if they can afford it. Also, it's much easier to get into China with a European passport than it is the other way around.

I can't advise you on GB vs Ireland, but I don't suppose it makes a major difference.

[marcusat]

But you can easily get your child an Irish passport because of your heritage - regardless if they are born in China or Uk or Ireland...so the point I'm trying to make is you don't need to make an immediate decision and fly to this country to give birth, you can just apply whenever it becomes convenient!

[cdn_in_bj]

Aside from the illegal dual-citizenship issue, I remember reading somewhere that if you claim Chinese citizenship for your child (gets registered in your wife's Hukou), you'll be limited to having just one. Or is that only one per Hukou? I'm not really sure... Anyways, it's something else to look into.

[GaHanna]

Thanks to everyone for the banquet of thought. Some thinking ahead but it does sound very positive indeed. Good luck to one and all!

[GBodyShop]

This is a something I am also trying to decide. But this is what I did find out from my wife. Your wife is a Chinese citizen and married to a foreigner. She is not bound by the one child law. You can have children with her in UK or in China. but truth as someone said before. If you seen the hospitals in China you want your child born in the UK. Now if your wife does not give up her China Citizenship. You can move there with her and within 5 years you become a permanent residence in China for yourself. Means never have to leave China ever. but you will never be a citizen of China. You need to check on your county's law on making sure you do not lose your citizenship from the UK. As for USA laws. All US citizen must touch US soil once at least every 6 years so you will not lose your citizenship. But laws change alot here so this laws can be updated.

Hope this can help

Good Luck

[cdn_in_bj]

Your wife is a Chinese citizen and married to a foreigner. She is not bound by the one child law.

As long as their children do not have Chinese citizenship (not on the wife's hukou), then the one-child policy does not apply.

[cdn_in_bj]

If you seen the hospitals in China you want your child born in the UK.

I don't have anything against the facilities, but I heard that many hospitals here tend to push having c-sections.

[simonlaing]

All US citizen must touch US soil once at least every 6 years so you will not lose your citizenship. But laws change alot here so this laws can be updated.

This doesn't seem right for some reason. Citizenship can't be just lost like that unless you perhaps you get citizernship with a country that the US doesn't allow dual citizenship (like Iran perhaps?)

I even found the requirement for Green card holders to go back to the US once a year at least to be a bit much, but I guess it is possible.

Also going back can become difficult if you family have since moved to Europe. So I don't think this can be so strict.

Can you cite your source of information?

Thanks,

Simon:)

[Socks]

Your wife is a Chinese citizen and married to a foreigner. She is not bound by the one child law.

As long as their children do not have Chinese citizenship (not on the wife's hukou), then the one-child policy does not apply.

So which one is right? If the kids take the Chinese citizenship can she only have one (she is bound by the one child law) or is she allowed to have as many as she wants (because she is married to a foreigner)?

We are in a similar situation (US-Chinese baby on the way), and have decided to have it in China and keep Chinese citizenship until we want to move back to the States. The reason being that having Chinese citizenship makes it a lot easier if you live in China. If the kid does go to a Chinese school, it will be cheaper if he has a local hukou and where we live (xinjiang) foreigners have to jump through a ton of hoops, which makes everything impossible. Why not make it a bit easier for all of us!

[johnd]

My understanding is if the children get Chinese citizenship, then you are bound by the one-child policy. That means, if you want a second child to also get Chinese citizenship, then you'll have to pay the fine like everyone else.

[roddy]

Not sure what the fines are, but if it means cheaper school fees it might be worth it . . .

Edit: Although now I think about it, do second kids pay higher fees anyway? I think they might.

[GBodyShop]

The one child law apply only to two married chinese citizen. Example: Husband is foreigner, wife is Chinese citizen. Now this couple is not bound by one child law. But if that child is born in china, the child is a chinese citizen. and that child is bound by one child law unless that child is married to a foreigner. But you can have a many children you want. If the child is born outside China the law does not apply. So you child is looked by chinas' law as a foreigner. So having a child outside china. Inside you native country not China then it can be good for both you and your child in the long run. Now I know this because my wife best friend is married to a man from Sweden ( Not sure if I spelled this country correct). But he has 3 children with her. One was born in Sweden and the other two was born in China. They have all boys. all look Chinese. The first child did have some problems getting into school. But did get into school. I think if you live in bigger cities it can be more easier for your child and yourself. But this last statement is only my opinion. Now I going to ask my wife to call her friend for more info. But I am 99% sure this is the way it is.

Quote marcusat

"But you can easily get your child an Irish passport because of your heritage - regardless if they are born in China or Uk or Ireland...so the point I'm trying to make is you don't need to make an immediate decision and fly to this country to give birth, you can just apply whenever it becomes convenient!"

I agree with this person and there reply. Take you time. Please make sure you double check all that is said here and make sure it is the law.

Good Luck