Advice on more efficient and effective study?

[Marceau]

Hi all.

I've read through pages and pages of forum posts and I've found oodles of incredibly useful posts that have already changed the way I study Chinese.

However, I'm afraid it might not be enough. I've been in China for nearly four and a half years now, and have been studying kind-of seriously for about two years, all of it by myself with the help of a few tutors.

I've done many things. I studied vocabulary lists (HSK 1 & 2). I studied characters. I started studying texts a while ago and found that a very interesting way to improve. Of course, I feel you need to have mastered a solid vocabulary before reading makes any sense.

My oral Chinese is quite good. I talk rather fluently, and can discuss just about anything with the Chinese people around me, but I do notice that there are often gaping holes in my vocabulary, ranging from the simple (e.g. words like 'victim' or 'pedestrian') to the less simple. (Calling myself 'rather fluent' then stems from the fact that I don't stall out when I find that I don't know the right word, I can usually talk around whatever I want to say, and as such get my meaning across regardless).

My listening is not quite good enough yet to fully understand radio and TV broadcasts, although I usually can get a good deal of what they're saying. Listening tests in the HSK are horrible though.

I tested a level 3 last year in those HSKs, and think I might have scored a 4 or 5 last week. That's a lot less progress than I had hoped to make.

My current goal is to be solidly íntermediate (say, level 7) by the time I take the HSK again, which will be at least half a year from now. When I say that, I'm not even thinking that much about the test. I am more focused on improving my Chinese (to the point where I could get such a grade).

I need to find a new source of inspiration. I need to find a way to get myself off of this big flat plateau I've landed on.

Any tips?

[self-taught-mba]

Long-haired dictionary. A girlfriend.

A dedicated one-on-one teacher everyday. Transcripts!!!!!! Check the first episode project. Or find the ones for radio. Don't just accept it when you don't know it. Look it up, capture the useful info, and put it into a dedicated review system.

[renzhe]

Looks like you're doing a lot of things right, so I'm just going to guess.

I'd suggest concentrating on reading (challenging stuff) and listening comprehension (TV shows are probably the best thing here, as you have problems with them).

Add volume. You live in China, so material should be easy to find. Get a dictionary, some good books, and our episode project, and spend 3 hours every day on it. You can do more on weekends.

[self-taught-mba]

Renzhe has the main point. Stick to it. Heck, last year I might have spent 3 hours for the whole year on my Chinese since I work so much. Being in China is not enough.

[renzhe]

...and when this point comes from somebody as pathologically lazy as me, you better believe it

[Marceau]

I have a girlfriend actually, and yes, it helps, although I've noticed that we keep swimming in the same shallow-ish vocabulary pool that we're used to. She's nice though, and often'll write down some new chengyu for me. She's especially fond of the ones that imply I'm an idiot.

I see some other nice things here. Watching more TV. Just doing it. Those things.

Perhaps though I'd like to ask you all a more basic question. How do you study? When, where, how? Do you use a computer or a pencil or whatever? It's just that I hardly know anyone who's studying Chinese in any kind of serious way, and I feel it'd be nice to take a peek over some of your shoulders. Most of the foreigners (teachers mostly) around here don't get much further than 你好 or 啤酒. I don't begrudge 'em those. I myself find those terms particularly useful as well, but you get my drift.

[gato]

I started studying texts a while ago and found that a very interesting way to improve. Of course, I feel you need to have mastered a solid vocabulary before reading makes any sense.

Reading is the key to acquiring a more sophisticated vocabulary. Maybe you can start with the local newspaper where you live.

[renzhe]

I'm studying in Europe, on my own. You're in China, which is a HUGE resource on its own, and I heartily recommend that you use it whenever and wherever you can. The month I spent in China helped me improve leaps and bounds, so make the best of it.

One thing I found extremely useful, and which you can do, is to let your girlfriend speak Chinese to other people and you try to follow. Don't speak English, and don't insist on speaking Chinese yourself all the time. Let her talk to people and you listen, and chime in from time to time, if you can understand the basic meaning. You will really develop your listening this way. If you all start speaking English, it's obviously no good, if they insist on talking to you and having you understand everything in Chinese, it won't take long before you are all frustrated and switch to English. Make it clear that it's completely OK to talk in Chinese and completely OK if you don't understand everything. Just be a passive participant most of the time, and chime in now and then.

My studying boils down to:

- Vocabulary study in front of a computer with a good flashcard program (using spaced repetition). I never skip this, takes 30 minutes to an hour a day.

- Reading. I've stocked up on comics (easy reading) and books (challenging reading), and spend at least an hour a day doing this, armed with a pocket dictionary. For beginner and intermediate learners, I really, totally, heartily, absolutely and completely recommend comic books -- they are available at all levels and pictures give you a lot of context.

- Grammar study based on New Practical Chinese Reader. I do a lesson per week, and I do it on the weekend. Saturday is for reviewing the last week's lesson, Sunday is for starting a new lesson. A couple of hours each on Saturday and Sunday.

- Watching TV shows for listening comprehension. There is an awesome collection in the TV series forum, with links, some vocabulary lists, subtitles, transcripts etc. I used to do a lot more of this, but nowadays reading is taking most of my time.

- Talking with my girlfriend, though this takes place over the phone.

EDIT: One comment regarding when to learn -- I try to space my character study throughout the day for best results, especially when drilling new characters. I do the revision as early in the day as I can, as the memory is fresher, and go over new characters at least three times a day. 3x10 minutes is much more effective than 1x30 minutes.

[renzhe]

I started studying texts a while ago and found that a very interesting way to improve. Of course, I feel you need to have mastered a solid vocabulary before reading makes any sense.

I feel that you need to understand about 90% of what you're reading before you can make the best of learning things this way. If you understand about 90%, you will be able to guess many missing words from the context, and new, interesting vocabulary will come up at regular intervals.

If you jump straight into really complicated texts, where you can barely figure out 30% of what you're reading without a dictionary, then it will turn into a tedious deciphering exercise very soon, and the overload of new information (which you can't even sort according to relevance) will kind of defeat the purpose.

Therefore: kids books and comic books! After reading 2000 pages of a teenager comic book, you'll be much better equipped to tackle a more challenging text!

[Brianlee0311]

I think we can try to use some techology to learn English efficiently. For example, using teaching software to enchance memory and increase vocabulary. I found a software and it is free download now. There are many fratures on it. We can copy some Chinese sentense or articles to paste on on it. Software will show Pinying on the top and speak out for you. They are very great functions I have ever seen. Just try it..I think we can practice our Chinese in our daily life.

admin edit:

[imron]

Hi Brian,

When you register with the same email address as the company that produces this software, I find it quite hard to believe that you just "found" it. Please don't pretend to be an interested customer of your own company. It just makes you and your product look silly.

[Scoobyqueen]

You mention the HSK material. I personally use HSK material a lot, both the listening and the written section (not grammar).

I find it useful as the passages tend to cover a wide range of vocabulary as well as different styles of language: colloquial and intellectual. They seem to have attempted to cram everything into this little exam and that can be useful if you want a compressed version. There is a book called something like HSK in 60 days that I think is good.

You asked about how we all study: I have a 4 hours commute a day :(so I do nearly all of my studying on a train and on a bicycle. That includes grammar, reading, writing and listening (only listening is possible on the bike) using a business text book, a normal text book, HSK and newspaper and work material. I briefly revise the previous day's material in the morning and learn new things on the morning journey and nearly only do revision on the way back. For the writing part, I use a pen and paper. I listen to audios and script out what has been said in hanzi in a dictation style. For character study I use Quizlet.

For speaking I have 3-5 hours one-to-one a week, skype teacher from China and local teacher here in Europe. Additionally, written work on new vocabulary is corrected by email by a Chinese teacher. I find that this approach is working for me. I note the improvements particularly when Chinese people make comments on the vocabulary I use (actively applied from what I have learnt). I am not based in China.

[asdfasdf123]

renzhe,

what program do you use for spaced repetitions?

谢谢

[renzhe]

I use Mnemosyne. Anki and Supermemo are also popular.

[taijidan]

Hi Renzhe,

Can you recommend any comic books to get started with?

Also if you have any tips on where I can order them from (I'm based in the UK)?

I have a vocab of probably about HSK A & B and finding it quite hard to find reading material where I can understand 90%.

[renzhe]

An easy one to start with is Doraemon. Known as 机器猫 (older editions) or 多拉A梦 (newer editions). It's extremely simplistic, but very easy to follow and all the vocab is really useful.

Another one I read was Ranma 1/2, 乱马1/2 in Chinese. It's geared towards teenagers and has lots of martial arts fights in it and is very funny. You can read the entire thing online, though getting a paper version is recommended if you decide you like it. I read more than 2000 pages of it before moving on. These are Japanese comics, but the Chinese translation is good.

The real benefit of reading easy stuff like comic books is not that you gain lots of vocabulary, but that it develops your reading speed and solidifies your knowledge of the most common characters and words. That way, when you tackle more complex stuff, you will not struggle with simple stuff, and can concentrate on the more difficult vocab and grammar.

It might be difficult to get them from outside China. You can get Doraemon any kiosk, but getting older manga like Ranma is more difficult, and I had to order it online. Within China, you can get ridiculously cheap bootlegs online. I don't know if anyone ships them to the UK, or how secure such a transaction would be. Your best bet is to get a Chinese acquaintance to bring some along the next time they visit.