以便 and 以 difference explained

[Scoobyqueen]

I understand that the overall meaning of 以便 and 以 is "in order to". However I am looking for a good explanation of their different usages. I understand that the first clause has to state something that will enable that in the second clause to happen. But I am not clear on the fact that 以便 is used when the seoncd clause can stand alone. I would have thought it would always depend on that which is stated in the first clause.

Can anyone recommend where I can find a good explanation of their difference. Does NPCR offer anything on this?

Thanks in advance.

[Josh-zhang]

I don't know if this will help, do u know something called penetrating chinese, which is using as fewer words as possible to describe a thing.

for example, to translate “in order to answer an urgent need"

only use 以：以应急需

use 以便：以便应付急需

have u seen the difference here? when u only use 以, the verb after 以 is using in a simplified way too. it would be weird if u translate it into 以便应急需.

another example, "so as to distinguish this from the others", 以示区别；以便显示（表示）区别.

[Lethe]

have u seen the difference here? when u only use 以, the verb after 以 is using in a simplified way too. it would be weird if u translate it into 以便应急需.

exactly!

以... looks like ancient Chinese.

以便.. is real mandarin.

If you struggle to read some ancient essays, you will have better understanding.Ancient words and phrases are always brief.

Not every word can be simplified,and some phrases are fixed.You need to find examples and remember.

btw:when you're confused, turn to its origin.

[Quest]

I haven't thought through all the meanings, but 以 to me means to use, a literary cousin of 用. It often means 以此 with 此 omitted.

Examples:

以应急需 -- 用此应作急时之需

以便应付急需 -- 用此方便应付急需

以示区别 -- 用此示作区别

以夷治夷 -- 用蛮夷去对付蛮夷

[Josh-zhang]

hi, Quest

以，在字典里的确有 in order to 的意思。

以应急需 -- 用 此 来 应作急时之需

以示区别 -- 用 此 来 表示区别

以夷治夷 -- 用 蛮夷 去 对付蛮夷

用……来，用……去，其实就是 in order to 的意思

[Lethe]

I haven't thought through all the meanings, but 以 to me means to use, a literary cousin of 用. It often means 以此 with 此 omitted.

Examples:

以应急需 -- 用此应作急时之需

以便应付急需 -- 用此方便应付急需

以示区别 -- 用此示作区别

以夷治夷 -- 用蛮夷去对付蛮夷

hmm..you might misunderstand 以.

But don't worry,it doesn't matter.We Chinese also mistake some words, and we never fail to understand each other.:mrgreen:

Yes,此 is often omitted,especially in ancient-like sentences.

"以(此)" and "以"(in order to) are really baffling, even to us senior students.

But here I have a strong feeling that these "以" should be “in order to".

I'm not definitely sure.You can post threads in 百度贴吧(http://tieba.baidu.com/),some teachers may come across and help.But some idlers may also come and mislead you .Your judgement is needed.

[Scoobyqueen]

Thanks for all contributions. I did find an explanation which is as follows:

以when placed at the beginning of the second clause in a complex sentence indicate the aim or obligation:

公司设有食堂以方便员工用餐。

If the second clause in a sentence is an independent clause, 以便 instead of 以 is used to connect the two clauses. That which is stated in the first clause will make the action easier to be carried out:

希望消费者都多提意见，以便我们改进产品质量。

[Quest]

scoobyqueen, to understand 以便, you should break it down into 以 and 便 (to ease, to make easier). 以便 is but one of many constructions using the word 以，others include 以防，以作，以示，以免 etc. If you don't mean 便 then you don't use 以便。You make it sound much harder than it needs to be with your second clause complex and independent sentences... 以 and 以便 are differentiated by meaning, not by grammar.

公司设有食堂以方便员工用餐。is the same as 公司设有食堂以便员工用餐。

希望消费者都多提意见，以便我们改进产品质量。is the same as 希望消费者都多提意见以方便（帮助）我们改进产品质量。

I have thought about it more, 以 certainly has other meanings than to use, for example 以致，以后。But these don't relate to your question, so they shouldn't concern you now。