PRC Flag

[foodtarget]

Wow, Hong Kong's flag is very aesthetically pleasing.

If I were going to design the flag for the PRC, which I know would never happen (it would be a cold day in hell before the Party took any of my suggestions), I would advocate something like a red background with 4 or 5 equally-sized yellow stars in a straight, horizontal line, symbolizing the (theoretical) equality of the various classes under communism (we're all comrades!). I think this would be more agreeable, while still depicting a positive aspect of communism (which is probably a prerequisite for Party ratification).

As for a reunification flag, I've never even thought about such a thing. That is an interesting idea.

[BrandeX]

Before you can have a unification flag, or some sort of "compromise" PRC/KMT flag, you are first going to have to convince the mainland that Taiwan is an independent country, and that they somehow will be a new country needing to change its flag if Taiwan is brought under their full control. I don't find it very likely.

[foodtarget]

you are first going to have to convince the mainland that Taiwan is an independent country, and that they somehow will be a new country needing to change its flag if Taiwan is brought under their full control

I don't think the government of the mainland or Taiwan see Taiwan as an independent country, or at least that is my understanding. As for reunification, I seriously hope that it isn't just Taiwan being "brought under control" by the PRC. I can't imagine a fully integrated reunification while Taiwan is still a democracy and the PRC is still a communist authoritarian...ship(?). So before full reunification, I imagine there would have to be some dramatic changes on one or both sides of the strait, which may or may not take the form of a "new country".

[Luobot]

foodtarget -

This reminds me of another thing I don't understand. Why is Mao's face on every freaking bill?!! (well, except for the worthless 1 and 5 jiao bills that depict some happy minorities). Isn't there anyone else who deserves a spot on the money?

Looks like the party had read your post # 9 and responded:

Since 1999, the 50th anniversary of the Communist party taking power, the face of Mao Zedong has appeared on all Chinese banknotes. But this week, the central bank announced that it would be dropped from six million notes being issued for the Olympic Games in August.

Instead, they will show the new bird's nest national stadium on one side and, on the other, an ancient Greek marble statue of a discus-thrower, portraits of athletes and the numeral 2008.

- Guardian

[foodtarget]

Yay, the Party listened to my suggestions! (kidding, of course) I still think they should put some other important figure on at least one of the bills. Deng Xiaoping is credited with ushering in the economic reforms, so it seems fitting that he should be depicted on a bill...

[muyongshi]

Don't forget that there was minorities originally on every bill and then it was in 99 that they changed it to Mao. Did go downhill with that decision in my mind but hey it wasn't always like that

[Luobot]

Here is a sample:

[foodtarget]

Wow! Very pretty, and loving the lack of Mao. When will this new money be put into use?

[Luobot]

You might want to take a look at Show Me the Olympic Money, which suggests that the new Olympic money will be in short supply and may become a collectors item.

It also has a picture of the birds nest side of the bill.

The article states that the People’s Bank of China will issue six million of these 10-yuan notes starting tomorrow.

Better get in line early. I'm sure that counterfeit bills will show up soon thereafter, if not even sooner.

Edit: The article is dated 7/7 so it should already be out.

[imron]

Um yeah, they were all sold out in half an hour or so. If you didn't get one already, you're not likely to unless you pay a hefty markup.

[mythia]

Most Chinese simply won't have the Big Star====>>>>CCP reflex in their brain. If you ask a Chinese whether he's spreading communism or proclaiming their faith to the CCP by waving the PRC flag, he probably will tell you it's a major misinterpretation.

Does wearing a Union Jack T-shirt automatically make someone a supporter for the Labour? Do you have to link the American flag with the dead in Iraq and get yourself a headache?

Or rather, link the national flags with the PEOPLE they represent. Hope that helps.

[jslee]

I think it's taking it a bit too far, absolutely avoiding the flag because of why it was formed. I'd like to think it represents the people and the country (as in places).

[foodtarget]

I'd like to think it represents the people and the country (as in places).

I can understand this point of view and can understand that this is how some people think. But I personally just can't completely separate the flag of the PRC from communism and the CCP.

Do you have to link the American flag with the dead in Iraq and get yourself a headache?

I think I've said this already somewhere, but comparing the American flag/Iraq war and the Chinese flag/communism is comparing apples and oranges. The Chinese flag was designed with the intention of symbolizing communism. The American flag, on the other hand, was certainly not intended to symbolize the Iraq war. It's not like each star represents a certain number of slain "terrorists" or something. In other words, I'm trying to distinguish between symbolism by association (American flag represents America, America started the war, therefore flag also kinda symbolizes American actions) and symbolism by intention (designer of flag and the Party say big star = CCP). Other than this, though, I can understand your argument that a flag represents the people first and foremost.

[Luobot]

While I disagree with your apparent fixation on the flag of China, I do understand your perspective in distinguishing between symbolism by design versus symbolism by association. I think it’s an interesting point but not the determining one. For example, the Nazi flag arouses a feeling of loathing in me, as the Nazis were so evil that symbolism by design or association is besides the point. I also don’t feel comfortable with the Confederate flag, despite the assertion that it’s only intended to represent Southern pride, as it continues to be used by supremacist hate groups. Whether symbolism by design or symbolism by association, it doesn’t really determine my feelings in either case. In the case of the PRC flag, I only see it as representing Mainland China as we know it today. True, it was created by the CCP, but that party came to power with certain idealist notions that were only later corrupted. Following the Mao era, China has been gradually correcting its path. The American flag was also born in a time of idealism and a time of slavery. The flag wasn’t designed for slavery, but a number of founding fathers proclaimed that all men are created equal, waved the flag, and simultaneously owned slaves. American ships flew the American banner from the shores of Africa to the shores of America carrying a cargo of men, women, and children to be sold at auction under an American flag. This history is one of several examples of America’s shame (the near genocide of the native population being another), but most Americans still love our country and our flag, and not because of any adherence to a principle of symbolism by design versus association. To our mind, the American flag represents us as we like to think about ourselves, rather than as a reminder of disturbing historical facts that we, today, had nothing to do with and can’t change. China has a much longer and very different history than America, but I think China’s current flag has to be seen in the same light. Modern China was born in a time of idealism out of horrendous feudalism, warlords, and general backwardness. If and when China is ready to become a democracy, it may or may not choose a new flag. In the meantime, I think that to make a big deal about China’s flag is to dwell on the trivial while missing the big picture of China’s rapid evolution.

[bhchao]

That's an interesting perspective Luobot. One can also say the same thing about one's own family. Even though your family members may have flaws that make them unattractive compared to people outside the household, you still love them unconditionally because they are your own.

[Luobot]

One can also say the same thing about one's own family. Even though your family members may have flaws that make them unattractive compared to people outside the household, you still love them unconditionally because they are your own.

Here’s a clarification of something that I may have stated too ambiguously:

When I said, “the American flag represents us as we like to think about ourselves, rather than as a reminder of disturbing historical facts that we, today, had nothing to do with and can’t change” – I didn’t mean that we should unconditionally, uncritically, or warmly embrace those “disturbing historical facts.” I meant that basically well intentioned people made compromises with their ideals, and the consequence was that the country already started to lose its way. I also meant that we, today, can’t go back in time to change what we wish never happened. In other words, we can’t rewrite history except through self-delusion, which I’m not a proponent of. When I said that “the American flag represents us as we like to think about ourselves” – again, I wasn’t advocating an indulgence in self-delusion or uncritical self-acceptance, but rather that our flag reminds us of our highest ideals, which, hopefully, we then try to live up to.

With regards to the analogy of a family:

It’s true that blood is generally thicker than water but only to a point. If my brother is hell bent on performing evil deeds, then he is no longer my brother. I reserve the right to disown him. On the other hand, if my brother is well intentioned but has lost his way, then I should be my brother’s keeper, and I should try to help him get back onto the right path. In doing so, I wouldn’t focus on the design of the handkerchief flapping out of his pocket when the wind blows on it, but rather on his overall direction and progress.