Alleluia Posted June 11, 2004 at 12:35 PM Report Posted June 11, 2004 at 12:35 PM I got into the funniest situation today, when I went to the Chinese embassy in Helsinki to apply for a visa. In the consular office there was a young Chinese girl working, not much older than I am, very nice and polite. I gave her all the documents - I applied for a student visa because I'm going to Beijing for a language course, so there was a special application form sent to me from China and the admission letter for the school - and she went through them. Then she looked at me and said: "Can I ask you a question? It's not about the visa, I'm just curious. How much did you pay for this?" On the application form it said that my "source of fund" is "self-supporting", so I guess that aroused her curiosity... I counted it up in my head and said: "For eight weeks, about 3500 euros." There was a distinct look of shock in her eyes, though I guess she tried to keep her cool. "So, do you think that's expensive?", I asked. "Well, I don't know, because I'm not a foreigner", was her reply. I smiled at her. How diplomatic! It's not like I myself don't think it's a total rip-off. I mean, I could never afford to pay it myself, and if I didn't get financial support from my family I wouldn't be going at all, but I couldn't tell that to a total stranger at the embassy! So now the girl probably ended up thinking that in Finland even university students are rich. Sure, we can all spare an odd 4000 euros for two months of language practice! Well, some might be, but not the majority of us. Not me. Was this just a clash of cultures? None of my Finnish friends or acquaintances, upon learning where I am going, have ever asked what it costs and whether I'm paying for it myself. Some I have told, some will never know. It's just not considered polite to ask about money. So I was totally unprepared for the girl's question. I wasn't offended at all, I thought it was ok, but I was just caught off guard. Maybe I should have told her that I'm not paying it all by myself, though I'm "self-supporting"?!? Now I just feel like I contributed to those stereotypes of all Westerners being rich... Quote
sunyata Posted June 11, 2004 at 01:14 PM Report Posted June 11, 2004 at 01:14 PM Hmm, I think this was not a clash of cultures, but her seeing that you have been ripped off and not knowing how to tell you about it. 3500 Euros for 8 weeks??? Umm, you have definitely been ripped off and very much so... I mean, the whole trip, including tuition, airfare, housing, food, and visa fees should not cost you more than 2500 Euros... Quote
pazu Posted June 11, 2004 at 01:15 PM Report Posted June 11, 2004 at 01:15 PM Your friends didn't ask you because it's not a custom to ask about one's income in Finland... the German magazine Spiegel (Mirror) has done a survey this April, that people only hesitate to answer questions about two spheres: mastrubation - and financial income. So if anyone asks you your money again, try to ask their habits of . Prepare to be asked a lot of the same kind of questions in China, most people are just curious though... it can be annoying sometimes, if they're too persistant. (Oh I just wanna know,,, oh oh , okay, then don't tell me the price of a beer, how about a bar of chocolate, how much is it to go to a bar?) You should beware not to tell others' the financial income without referring to the actual living standard in your own country. Some people I met told me a foreigner could make US$1000 a month (...) in US easily! Then I tried to tell them they need to live in a very small flat... Quote
BeijingSlacker Posted June 11, 2004 at 02:37 PM Report Posted June 11, 2004 at 02:37 PM A couple of quick points: -- Foreigners are always ripped off. Its the way the whole world works, not only China. You should see how they rip off those ESL students. Its a rule of thumb that the tuitions for international students are 5 to 9 times that of domestic students. -- About asking others' financial situations, I find it very rude too. I am not sure if that girl's job somehow justifies her questions. I guess not if she is just some kind of receptionist. Unfortunately, asking about financial questions is fairly common in China. and I hate it too. I would say it can vary with people's age and upbringings. I cannot recall I heard any young Beijingers ask explicit financial questions, but with older people, it does happen. I dont even ask my closet buddy how much they make. (well, they initiate the information although) Quote
Alleluia Posted June 11, 2004 at 04:17 PM Author Report Posted June 11, 2004 at 04:17 PM 3500 Euros for 8 weeks??? Umm, you have definitely been ripped off and very much so... Sunyata, remember, you were very disappointed about the costs of these WLE courses in April when I posted a question about them. But as I said then I'll say again: they are expensive, but I know it, I knew it from the beginning, and that was ok because I got the whole thing payed for me as a gift. So actually I don't feel like I've been ripped off after all, cause I went there knowingly... Besides, the girl couldn't have had any idea of what I had payed just by looking at the papers. Maybe she was really just curious. Don't know... Or maybe she had heard of the horrendous prices they ask from foreigners, and she wanted confirmation for that. Or maybe she was concerned about poor little me, but I strongly doubt it! I mean, the whole trip, including tuition, airfare, housing, food, and visa fees should not cost you more than 2500 Euros... The 3500 euros includes tuition, teaching material, housing and 2-3 meals a day. Oh, and insurance too, but I had that already. Visa fees really aren't that much, 22 euros. So that doesn't hurt more than grocery shopping does! I got plane tickets for 660 euros and that's about as cheap as you can go when booking just two months in advance. Yeah, I guess 1800 euros for the whole course would sound better, but here we are. So if anyone asks you your money again, try to ask their habits of... That's a good one! I guess I'll be making loads of new friends in Beijing then! Foreigners are always ripped off. Its the way the whole world works, not only China. You should see how they rip off those ESL students. Its a rule of thumb that the tuitions for international students are 5 to 9 times that of domestic students. Yeah. It sucks. The worst was when I went to St. Petersburg, and all the museums etc. very openly stated different fees for Russians and for foreigners - and the latter were ten times the former... But then again, I guess even as "poor students" we were relatively well off when compared to some of the locals, so we thought it was ok on some level. About asking others' financial situations, I find it very rude too. I am not sure if that girl's job somehow justifies her questions. I guess not if she is just some kind of receptionist. Yeah, I know, but at the embassy!!! If she is to be a diplomat one day, then I don't know about the future of China's foreign relations... Hope she was just a receptionist, an intern or sth. Quote
sunyata Posted June 11, 2004 at 09:54 PM Report Posted June 11, 2004 at 09:54 PM The worst was when I went to St. Petersburg' date=' and all the museums etc. very openly stated different fees for Russians and for foreigners - and the latter were ten times the former... But then again, I guess even as "poor students" we were relatively well off when compared to some of the locals, so we thought it was ok on some level. [/quote'] Hehe, I know all about that. Yes, it seems unfair, but as you have noted, foreigners have a much higher salary than Russians on average. Anyway, next time you go to St. Petersburg, let me know and I may be able to help you get the "Russian" tickets. Well, since the 3500 was a gift, then don't worry about it! At least you will have a good and comfortable time in Beijing with nothing to worry about. I hope you have a good time! And when people ask you how much you make or how much money you have, just tell them you are a student and you don't make any money. If they ask you about other people, just say they earn more, but living costs are also much higher ;) If they still persist, then follow Pazu's advice Quote
holyman Posted June 11, 2004 at 11:15 PM Report Posted June 11, 2004 at 11:15 PM 3500 is quite ok for 1st timers... well, people usually got a bit ripped on their first time. chinese dont ask about ur income or financial things too directly but many times questions like 'what's the average income in your country' will appear within the 1st 15 to 30 mins of conversation. think thats one way they compare u with the locals or u with the other foreigners they met. in chinese places of interest tickets for locals and foreigners are usually different too. use ur student's pass whenever u can to get half-price tics(not to the cab driver, of course). Quote
wushijiao Posted June 12, 2004 at 01:37 AM Report Posted June 12, 2004 at 01:37 AM In the West, we generally show our wealth through conspicuous consumption, simply because money is such a dirty, masturbatory subject. But it seems in China’s more developed places, like Shanghai, people aren’t asking “how much do you make?”anymore, and are instead showing it off through international fashion, car, and cell phone brands. I think the taboo about money is somewhat ludicrous, personally. Quote
wushijiao Posted June 12, 2004 at 01:42 AM Report Posted June 12, 2004 at 01:42 AM From this wek's Economist talking about Chinese students defaulting on loans, "Since 1999, some 800,000 such students have taken out subsidised loans. For an entire four-year course, a typical loan would total around $3,600. The money lent mostly goes directly to the universities, with only a small amount for subsistence given to the students. " Quote
pazu Posted June 12, 2004 at 06:21 AM Report Posted June 12, 2004 at 06:21 AM chinese dont ask about ur income or financial things too directly Definitely not true. This is indeed very much a cultural shock to me when I travelled in China (for around a year) and I'm Chinese too. People *everywhere* ask either, "how much is your salary?" or "how much are your parents' salaries?" I usually "ha-ha" them and said "夠生活就好", some people are very persistent and kept asking, "哦我只是想知道個大概, 那大概有多少錢? 或者這樣, 一個大學生畢業後有多少錢?", in this case, give him or her a big smile like this: , hehe, how ludicrous! Quote
BeijingSlacker Posted June 12, 2004 at 07:16 AM Report Posted June 12, 2004 at 07:16 AM I once heard a good answer to the income question: 钱不多，够用。 Quote
Alleluia Posted June 12, 2004 at 09:59 AM Author Report Posted June 12, 2004 at 09:59 AM Well, since the 3500 was a gift, then don't worry about it! At least you will have a good and comfortable time in Beijing with nothing to worry about. I hope you have a good time! Thanks, Sunyata! Are you Russian, by origin? I noticed Russian is first on your language list. chinese dont ask about ur income or financial things too directly but many times questions like 'what's the average income in your country' will appear within the 1st 15 to 30 mins of conversation. think thats one way they compare u with the locals or u with the other foreigners they met. So I guess I'd better find out what the average income in my country is! To be honest, I have no idea. In the West, we generally show our wealth through conspicuous consumption, simply because money is such a dirty, masturbatory subject. --- I think the taboo about money is somewhat ludicrous, personally. Yeah, I know what you mean. Once you learn to read between the lines, you can get quite a good picture of someones income level just by looking at their clothes, their apartment, the foods they eat... But of course you can learn to lead others off in that way too, make it seem like you're wealthier than you really are. Actually, I've internalized the taboo so well that it's hard to even see the ludicrousness of it. People *everywhere* ask either, "how much is your salary?" or "how much are your parents' salaries?" I usually "ha-ha" them and said "夠生活就好" I don't even know my parents' salaries! It has NEVER occurred to me to ask them. So I guess the smile is all I can do. I once heard a good answer to the income question: 钱不多，够用。 What does that exactly mean, how would you translate it? "I don't earn much, but enough to cover the expenses"??? Quote
holyman Posted June 12, 2004 at 10:16 AM Report Posted June 12, 2004 at 10:16 AM 'not much, just enough to survive' Quote
BeijingSlacker Posted June 14, 2004 at 10:02 AM Report Posted June 14, 2004 at 10:02 AM Quote: I once heard a good answer to the income question: 钱不多，够用。 What does that exactly mean, how would you translate it? "I don't earn much, but enough to cover the expenses"??? Well, the nice thing about this answer is that it does not say enough for what. It can be enough for surviving, or for studying overseas, or anything. well....it does somehow tend to come across as enough for living, but if you think about it, people do different things and their living expenses vary a lot. So actually the sentence does not tell anything about your financial situation. Quote
Green Pea Posted June 15, 2004 at 04:58 AM Report Posted June 15, 2004 at 04:58 AM When people ask me how much I make, I usually say "RMB100,000". "You mean, per year?" they question. "No, per month." Upon hearing this answer, they wish they never asked such a silly, personal question. Quote
yonglan Posted January 21, 2005 at 11:34 AM Report Posted January 21, 2005 at 11:34 AM You should see how they rip off those ESL students. Its a rule of thumb that the tuitions for international students are 5 to 9 times that of domestic students. 5-9 times! Ha! Stop smoking dope, man. Another popular myth in the US, especially among Taiwanese, is that foreigners pay more for regular tuition. Not true. People who say that just show how ignorant they are of their host country's regulations (ie the difference between in-state and out-of-state tuition in the US). I paid the same as foreign students because I went to an out-of-state, state school. Quote
cutty Posted January 21, 2005 at 11:25 PM Report Posted January 21, 2005 at 11:25 PM I think it's OK for the people in consular office to ask about your cost and how you will pay for it? If a Chinese want to get a Visa to Finland in Beijing, he will even have to have his bank statement with him. Quote
yonglan Posted January 22, 2005 at 01:00 PM Report Posted January 22, 2005 at 01:00 PM cutty, I believe Alleluia said that she had asked out of personal curiosity. I had to give bank information to study in Taiwan. Quote
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