Daodejing

[Altair]

I am curious about the traditional interpretations of the following phrase from the beginning of the Daodejing: 故常无,欲以观其妙;常有,欲以观其徼.

The most popular English translations seem to render the words 常无欲 as "always desireless" and the words 常有欲 as "always desiring." The entire phrase is translated by C. Muller as: "Therefore, always desireless, you see the mystery

Ever desiring, you see the manifestations." (See http://www.edepot.com/tao3.html).

I assume that no punctuation was used in classical texts; however, the punctuation I have copied above from Wenlin seems to suggest something different, namely that 常无 and 常有 are units. I assume these phrases mean something like "eternal non-being" and "eternal being," respectively. With this interpretation, the sentence could be rendered as something like: "Therefore, for eternal non-being, we desire to look upon its mysteries, for eternal being, we desire to look upon its contours."

Are both interpretations reasonable? If so, has one or the other understanding been the traditional one in China?

[高可文]

I've always seen both interpretations. Most translations into English I have seen use "always desireless," but the punctuation does suggest otherwise. I think one of the most interesting things about wenyanwen is the variety of meanings a single text can be given.

[Quest]

“具体地，比方说《道德经》第一篇中有这麽句话，‘故常无欲以观其妙常有欲以观其徼’。有人是这麽断句的：‘故常无，欲以观其妙；常有，欲以观其徼’其认为，“无”和“有”，一种是为了观其玄妙的境界，一种是为了观其变化的迹象。在《现代汉语词典》中，徼(jiao)是‘求’的意思，还有‘巡查’的意思。我认为这种断句和解释方法是不十分妥帖的，某些方面不符合道家无为的思想。还一种断句方法是：‘故常无欲，以观其妙；常有欲，以观其徼’。我认为这种断句方法是更合适的，为什麽呢？首先符合道家无为的理论。再者，修炼界讲，只有在无欲、无为的状态，才能看到事物的全部和实质，而在有欲、有求的状态下，往往看到的都是在所求之心作用下的事物的一个方面，所以，虽然看到了事物的联系，但是片面的。所以，不修炼的人，是不容易理解有神论的历史上，那些觉者或思想家所讲的话的。”

http://www.epochtimes.com/gb/3/10/16/c15124.htm

[holyman]

恒欲也以觀其眇恒有欲也以觀其所（帛书）=恒（无）欲也,以觀其眇,恒有欲也,以觀其所

故常无欲，以观其妙；常有欲，以观其侥。（河上公/王弼）

常无欲观其妙常有欲观其皦。（敦煌）=常无,欲观其妙.常有,欲观其皦

故常无欲观其妙，常有欲观其徼。（景龙）=both ways possible

。。。。。。。。。。。

different versions have different ways of writing, and probably have valid explainations too. wait for earlier versions...