有点儿 vs. 一点儿?

[colin.hroberts]

I'm a little bit confused about the difference between "有点儿" and "一点儿“. My textbook has a little blurb about each, but I don't feel at all confident about using them because the descriptions are very similar...my textbook says:

1. "有点儿+Adj/V" indicates degree (eg: 公共汽车有点儿慢)

2. "一点儿“ is used after adjectives as a complement, indicating degree. (eg: 便宜一点儿我就买)

Now is the only difference between the two is that "有点儿" can be used to indicate degree in verbs as well as adjectives? Those are the verbatim descriptions from my textbook, so that's why i'm a little bit confused...If someone could help me out with this, i'd be much obliged!!

//Colin

[skylee]

I don't know about Chinese grammar. But would it help to see 有點兒 as a shortened form of 有 + 一點兒?

[colin.hroberts]

ahh! yes! thank you...I'd like a little bit more clarification if anyone would be willing to give it, but I was wondering if "有点儿“ was a contracted version of "有一点儿“ thanks skylee!

[creamyhorror]

As skylee says, it's a contraction/equivalent of 有一点儿, and the 有 makes it play a different grammatical role. The basic difference, I think, is that 有一点儿 refers to a noun or noun phrase (sometimes implied/unspoken) on its left, while 一点儿 goes anywhere that a larger structure can accept a modifier of degree.

多吃一点吧

吃多一点吧

(我)连一点疑问也没有

(我)疑问连一点也没有

一点疑问(我)也没有

You not supposed to say 公共汽车一点儿慢 simply because 一点儿 doesn't fall in the class of words that precedes the adjective in this case (including 很，非常，不太, etc.).

[lemur]

Here are the rules I learned. (I think they agree with what creamyhorror is saying.) This is not meant to be grammar but to provide quick guidelines.

1. 有一點 comes before adjectives.

語法有一點難。

我寫漢字寫得有一點慢。

2. 一點 comes before nouns.

吃一點飯吧。

3. 一點 comes after adjectives when used for comparison purposes.

我比哥哥高一點。

Maybe these rules are oversimplified but they seem to provide a good basis.

Edited July 26, 2008 at 02:37 AM by lemur
can't keep my traditional and simplified straight! eek!

[colin.hroberts]

thanks so much guys! those are both really helpful!

[creamyhorror]

1. 有一點 comes before adjectives.

語法有一點難。

我寫漢字寫得有一點慢。

It can also come before nouns, e.g. 你的语法有点问题.

2. 一點 comes before nouns.

吃一點飯吧。

It can also come after nouns, e.g. 这道菜你吃一点吧. I think the basic rule is that it comes after verbs and not before.

[lemur]

Talking about 有一點：

It can also come before nouns, e.g. 你的语法有点问题.

I parse this sentence as [你的语法] + [有] + [点问题], that is, Subject + Verb + Object. The object is a noun phrase which I parse as [点] + [问题]. So what we have here is 点 qualifying 问题.

The case you bring to our attention should be noticed but I don't think it is a case about the *adverbial phrase* 有点 qualifying something.

Corrections to my analysis will be appreciated.

Talking about 一點：

It can also come after nouns, e.g. 这道菜你吃一点吧. I think the basic rule is that it comes after verbs and not before.

Good observation! This illustrates that the basic rules I listed do not take care of topicalization. In the example you provide, topicalizing the object moves the object to the front except that 一点 stays in place.

Also, it seems to me that 一点 can appear before the verb:

一點空都沒有。

一點剩菜讓我生病了。

(Ok, the first example is again an example of topicalization.)

Again, if I made mistakes, please let me know.

(I realize I mixed simplified and traditional. I type in traditional but I've tried to maintain the text as-is when I quoted.)

Edited July 26, 2008 at 12:57 PM by lemur
bad grammar

[creamyhorror]

The case you bring to our attention should be noticed but I don't think it is a case about the *adverbial phrase* 有点 qualifying something.

Really, I think I see it in even more discrete terms. Like I said previously, (一)点 seems to be an adverb that comes after verbs, (有 being a case of this).

Also, it seems to me that 一点 can appear before the verb:

一點空都沒有。

一點剩菜讓我生病了。

To me, this use of 一点 is as a simple quantifier/degree marker for a noun (akin to 一大堆，三碗，etc.). In this case, it's fine for it to appear without a verb in front.

[anxoperez]

I think Chinese people do not realize how difficult it is for English speakers and other foreigners to understand when to use yǒu diǎn and yì diǎn.

I know a few instances, such as

hao yi dian = a little better

you dian hao = a little good

you dian xihuan = like it a little

yao yi dian = want a little

Can someone tell me the rule as to when is yi dian used and when is you dian used?

xiexie

[Shadowdh]

I have been told that youdian® is used with a negative turn of phrase and yidian® is for the positive...

so hao yidian = a litte bit good

but youdian hao = little good (not the dropped "a" to stress its of little good)

But I could be mistaken as I am not the hottest when it comes to grammar...

[necroflux]

I think you might be a bit confused, you3 dian3 is really "you3 yi1 dian3" with the yi1 still there but sometimes left out in speech (or at least hard to pick up on when the speaker is speaking quickly). So whether or not you add a you3 is a matter of grammar more than meaning. Finally, I've never heard "yi dian hao", most native speakers would just say "hai2 hao3" (還好) to get across the meaning of "just okay".

[roddy]

Merging with an earlier topic.

[anxoperez]

necroflux, thanks for the observation. Yes, I was aware of that.

It doesn't change anything, though.

So, it seems that after this lengthy discussion noone is able to establish a clear-cut rule as to when to use yi dian and when to use you (yi) dian...

[imron]

Go and read post #4 more carefully.

[Wang7]

During the eighteen months of studying Mandarin, it amazes me that I have yet to come across textbook grammar rules for comparative/superlative phrases. Frustrates the hell out of me. BTW, does anyone remember using the Warriner's English Grammar and Composition text when they were in school? Has anyone come across a similar Chinese grammar text?

[Matty]

I was taught that 有点 is mostly used with something not so good.

我有点饿 <= I'm a little hungry (that's no good)

她有点迟到 <= She's a little late (not so great either)

今天有点冷 《= Today is a little cold (i don't like that)

我有点感冒 <= I'm a little sick (Poor guy)

[Wang7]

Thanks, Matty, and apparently you're correct:

"The expression you3 yi4 dianr3 often shortened to you3 dianr3 in speech may be used with an adjective to indicate a slight degree of dissatisfaction with the situation" "a bit too ADJECTIVE."

Hung - nien Chang, Sze yun Liu, and Lilin Shi; A Practical Chinese Grammar, p.428.

[shuhaier]

Let me, a Chinese, explain it to you. I feel it's so simple.

一点儿 is more a adj before nouns and adv before adj or adv. (it is used before the word it helps(修饰，I don't know how to say it in English).

有点儿

1 before noun or adj or adv, it's similar to 一点儿 means there's a little

2. before verb, it indicates past tense or current status.

How to distinguish

normally, when you delete 一点儿, the sentence will be still complete. It's ok.

But when you delete 有点儿，you will feel the sentence is odd.

It's because 有 is a verb in a sentence.

Also

tell status

有一点感冒（got a little cold）

decorate nouns

一点儿感冒（only a little cold）

tell status

有一点困难（ met some difficulty）

decorate difficulty is only small

一点儿困难

Will administrator of this forum hire me to be Chinese consultant here

[fij]

How about this? When talking about an uncertain/unknown amount, you indicate that (you think) the amount is significant by 有点(儿), otherwise you say 一点(儿). Thanks!

 

-- Sorry, wrong question.