Thinking of heading off to China

[corina1986]

Hello,

I live in Madrid, Spain and am getting ready to begin my last year of college and I've been thinking of what I might want to do afterwards. Going abroad is what appeals to me the most. I'm looking for a place that's safe for a girl, not too expensive, and where I can learn an important language. I'm fluent in English, Spanish, and French, so I thought Mandarin might be the next logical step.

I'm haven't taken any Chinese before, but if I become serious about going to China after school, I'd definitely take lessons this coming year. So when I got there I would still be a beginner, but at least not a total one. I haven't done any serious research, but googling random things, I found American agencies that offer a year in Shanghai (lodging at student dorms + course) for approximately 9,000 euros. The exact same package would cost 4,000 euros (if I didn't mess up with the currency conversion) at Fudan University if I did it directly through them.

I have several questions for people who want to do/have done the same thing...If you could answer at least one, I'd be very grateful!

1. What are the best locations? I've only looked into Beijing/Shanghai because they're the best-known cities, but maybe there are smaller cities that I should also consider?

2. What is a realistic price range? I noticed a huge difference between doing it through an agency or doing it directly with the university.

3. How are university dorms? I'm not looking for luxury, but I'd like to know if it is possible to get a single room.

4. What level could I attain in one year of intensive study if I arrive there with only basic knowledge?

5. Socially-speaking, is it easy to make friends?

Thank you!

[roddy]

1. 'Best' depends on what you are looking for. If you want a modern city with lots of nightlife, Shanghai beckons, but you can expect to spend more. There are any number of smaller (by Chinese standards) cities that will be much cheaper, but if you like certain western comforts you might be disappointed. Climate, location, cost of living, etc - these are all factors. Tell us what you're hoping to find and hopefully we can come up with some more specific ideas. Everywhere in China is likely to seem cheap compared to Madrid - although you can certainly spend lots if you have it - and safety is rarely an issue.

2. Agencies are definitely very pricey and not usually recommended for a year long stay. Doing it all independently will be a bit more hassle, but you'll save plenty and - well, if you wanted an easy life, you wouldn't be coming to China, would you . But again, it's hard to say what it'll cost if you haven't decided on a city, or at least a type of city (ie major metropolis vs provincial capital vs . . . )

3. It will be, but if you are here for a year you'll get much better value for money renting an apartment or a room in an apartment. This will seem quite daunting at first, but it's the best way to go. See here for some examples.

4. Bad news - it depends how hard you work Have a look at this for some ideas.

5. Very easy - at the start of the semester everyone is new and meeting new people. Chinese people will generally be friendly and interested in anyone foreign. Maybe too interested sometimes.

Hope that gets you started.

[StevenD]

I think it also really depends on your expectations.

Many people who come to China after traveling through Europe and the US can sometimes find it to be little unaesthetic, if not downright unpleasant. I hugely enjoyed my experiences in China but I definitely had to work past many challenges. I encountered many foreigners in China who were not pleased with their experiences, whether they were teaching, traveling, doing business, or learning Chinese.

There are many many opportunities to do all of these things, and they can be of very poor quality. It's important to do research, make contact with people doing what it is you want to do, and make sure you get plenty of info on both the good and the bad. You also have to accept beforehand that doing any of these things will very likely NOT meet the comfort standards we expect in the West.

I knew many ex-pats who had lived in China for years in the virtual other-world of the ex-pat community, having never learned a bit of Chinese, and with virtually no Chinese friends. They often form "let's complain about China" groups, and these can be easy to fall into, but should be avoided if you plan on making any headway in learning Chinese and making Chinese friends. I saw many of these types, unfortunately. Among the English-teacher community there were many infamous for their bad experiences, and many of them brought the misery on themselves. Preparation and genuine interest is everything.

As for learning Chinese, a year will give you a good head start if you are extremely dedicated. You may want to look into programs in Taiwan. I have heard that the Mandarin Training Center (MTC) can give you reasonably good Chinese lessons. I don't have first-hand experience with it, but I had some college professors of Chinese history (both Westerners) who recommended it as an alternative to ICLP and IUP (which do not accept beginners). It's an inexpensive program, although you may not get a whole lot of one-on-one, but I feel safe in saying that it's certainly better than most university Chinese language programs in the West.

Again, it's all about expectations and dedication. I am very glad to hear that you are putting an emphasis on language study. Almost all of the ex-pats who did not learn Chinese were also the regular China-bashers, and those who did study the language had wonderful experiences.

I should also say that I've played the bad-foreigner roll before...I spent a year abroad in Japan as an undergrad and hated the experience. I know now that it was due to my own attitude. I learned from these mistakes and had a far better experience in China.

It's all about expectations and attitude.

good luck!

[stoney]

This is a little OT but...

I think the best way to get your "foot in the door" in China is to teach English, or Spanish or some other Job. The university will take care of everything for you. During this first year you can make Chinese friends and contacts, find your way around, discover opportunities, and even learn a little Chinese. Then going back to China will be very easy if you have some Chinese friends to help you out.

Just my advice.

[corina1986]

Thank you all for replying!

I know that China will be different from other typical student destinations...I studied abroad in Paris, and I know going to Beijing or Shanghai would be completely different. But I don't mind, really. As long as I can take a shower every day and have my own quiet room, I can put up with just about anything.

With regards to the city, I'm not a fan of clubbing till the wee hours of the morning, so I don't really care about nightlife...Nor am I a fan of the decadent ex-pat crowd you find in just about any major city I do want to go a place where I will easily meet people who are doing the same thing as me and will want to eat out, do cultural outings, and travel on weekends or holidays, etc...so somewhere with plenty of other foreign students. (I know the idea is to meet Chinese people, but they have their own lives and foreigners who've left everything behind are often more receptive). Any suggestions? I think Shanghai is a good option, and I've heard good things about Fudan University.

Regarding the price, I looked on Fudan's page and the 1-year course+lodging should come out to be about 4,000 euros. Does that sound about right or is it too little? I used an online currency converter. Excluding lodging, how much do you guys spend monthly and where do you live?

As for the effort/dedication, of course I plan on doing my best...However, part of the reason I'm thinking of going abroad is b/c after I finish my degree in Journalism next year, I will need a year to finish my Liberal Arts degree that I'm doing by correspondence. Since I can be anywhere for that, I figured I might as well do that year somewhere where I can learn a language. So I would need 2 hours or so a day to dedicate to my distance learning.

And I did think about going over there to teach English/Spanish, but seeing that spending a year only studying seems relatively cheap, I thought maybe I'd give if a shot. I can always take up a job once I'm there if any opportunities come up, because when I searched job opportunities online, half of them looked like scams.

[Maxwell Plank]

Don't rule out the Western cities. Chengdu has a relaxed feel and some nice parks. It compares favorably in those respects to Shanghai. In Shanghai, where I lived for a year, the nightlife was everything - but you say you're not into the nightlife. Every other expat I knew was an alcoholic; ut that may be the same wherever you go.

I've heard Xi'an is a nice place to "hang out", but have never been there myself. Kunming is good because it doesn't have as much pollution as the other cities I've mentioned (at least not yet) and it is located in Yunnan Province, where there are lots of opportunities to go hiking on the weekends and visit unusual places. I've lived in Yunnan for several months and would have started out here or Chengdu if I had known better to begin with. There are places you can study in Chengdu, Kunming and I suppose Xi'an. I wouldn't rule out private Chinese language institutes, and perhaps a homestay (living with a Chinese family instead of in a dorm or apartment). I've heard better things about private institutes than universities.

Another thought, the pricing at the institutes seems very flexible depending on whether you choose group or individual classes, and 2 or 4 hours per day.

Good luck.

[nobody200071]

Chengdu is great, manic, in your face, yet chilled out with a billion tea houses, and huge parks that just attract life. Highly recommend it, check out Wen Shu Monastary, 5Y entry, and 5Y for the most peaceful cup((s)-they keep refilling it) of tea in the world. Worth every penny of 80p.

Kunming is the capital of life. It has a billion things going on, an everything is exciting. We've not been here long, studying Mandarin, however every second has been 'the most' the most real, the most lively, the most exciting...etc... of everywhere we've been yet.

Why don't you get on the trains and check these places out, feel for it yourself, you'll love every second.

[rob07]

1. What are the best locations? I've only looked into Beijing/Shanghai because they're the best-known cities, but maybe there are smaller cities that I should also consider?

Mandarin is the national language but Chinese people generally speak a dialect as well. Mandarin is based on and almost exactly the same as Beijing dialect. On the other hand, Shanghai dialect is completely different to Mandarin.

You can certainly learn Mandarin in Shanghai, or anywhere else in China for that matter, but if you want the language you are learning to be the same language as the one that the Chinese people in the city in which you are living generally speak on the streets or at home, Beijing would be better than Shanghai.

[skylee]

People on this forum usually say Kunming is the best. But some say Qingdao is very good too.

[msittig]

If you go to Fudan, don't stay in the dorms. I've heard very bad stories about the place. Do like Roddy says and rent your own place. Stay in a cheap hotel for a couple weeks while you search down an apartment or find roommates.

[lilongyue]

Since it's only been mentioned once, I'll go ahead and mention Taiwan again. Shida in Taipei costs the same as most universities in the Mainland. The website is http://www.mtc.ntnu.edu.tw/indexe.html. I've read mixed reviews of it, but that's normal, as so much of life abroad depends on your viewpoint. If you want to study Chinese, live within Chinese culture, but don't want to live in the most crowded, polluted place on earth, check out Taiwan. In less than an hour, you can be outside Taipei and amid beautiful forested mountains. There is coast galore (it's an island after all), and it's much more developed than Mainland China. And, although this may cause some controversy on this forum, the Taiwanese, like Hong Kongese, have a more traditional sense of etiquette, unlike the Mainland where that was lost.

One of the things that has worn on me the most in my time in China is the pollution. So, you might want to ask yourself if you want to get used to never being able to see more than a mile (at best) in any direction. The air in Taiwan is quite clean, remarkably better than the Mainland, anyway. If you are concerned over air quality, not to mention water quality and how many toxins are in every mouthful of rice you eat, think carefully before making your decision. Population is another consideration. Do you like masses of people everywhere you go, all the time? Always waiting in huge lines for everything? Being packed into buses/trains/subways with so many other people that you can barely move? If not, don't come to China.

Anyway, if you do decide to come to the Mainland, you might also want to consider Hangzhou. I've been here for almost 3 years, and I prefer it to many other places I've visited, although I keep hearing about Kunming, and am being tempted to check it out. You can see the sky most of the time in Hangzhou, unlike many other cities, where the sky is gray with pollution 7 days a week. Living in a city where you can actually see a blue sky is a special treat in China, if that tells you anything about the state of things here. I'm not trying to turn you off to Mainland China, but despite certain people's anger about biased media coverage of China in the West, the reports about pollution are not exaggerated. If you're young and healthy, and don't plan on staying a long time in China, then I suppose you wouldn't be too concerned about health issues. If you are health conscious, and value personal space, there is an alternative. Just wanted to let you know.