Committed a cultural blunder about Mao

[gato]

You can read some of the poems as well as English translations here.

http://www.lingshidao.com/gushi/maozedong.htm

毛泽东诗词选

http://www.marx.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/poems/index.htm

Mao Zedong

A question to ponder is if these would be considered to good poems when translated into another language. Any one able to translate them into English and make them still sound like poetry? The ones above posted on marx.org are pretty unreadable.

[A life of study]

Mao probably did write the poems, but I wouldn't worry about upsetting your teacher. If you get onto some of China's nationalistic issues (the 2 Ts), your teacher won't give a fudge about upsetting you by retailing an utterly false version of history. And you are paying the teacher! Sometimes I think they think it's the other way round!

What I mean is that some teachers treat you as some kind of propaganda sounding board, and come out with propaganda that they must know is false. My attitude towards my teacher has changed utterly since he gave me the lecture on a certain province west of Sichuan. I was left wondering why I am paying money for this jerk. So, you upset the teacher - er, so what??

[studentyoung]

A question to ponder is if these would be considered to good poems when translated into another language. Any one able to translate them into English and make them still sound like poetry?

That’s why the world needs translators and interpreters. Translation is a tough job, and translating good poems is even harder, because you must consider the form, style, and meanings at the same time.

The ones above posted on marx.org are pretty unreadable.

If you have some spare time, please, please, please, do make one or two of them readable. I just can’t wait to see your version, gato. Hehe.

Mao probably did write the poems, but I wouldn't worry about upsetting your teacher. If you get onto some of China's nationalistic issues (the 2 Ts), your teacher won't give a fudge about upsetting you by retailing an utterly false version of history. And you are paying the teacher! Sometimes I think they think it's the other way round!

I wonder if you’re a student studying on China’s history. I wonder if you understand that how true the reality of history you can reach depends on how well you can see through the appearance to perceive the essence 透过现象看本质. Below is an example, please have a look.

张十五替郭、杨二人斟了酒，自己又斟一杯，一口饮干，说道：“岳爷爷有两句诗道： ‘壮志饥餐胡虏肉，笑谈渴饮匈奴血。’这两句诗当真说出了中国全国百姓的心里话。唉，秦桧这大奸臣运气好，只可惜咱们迟生了六十年。”郭啸天问道：“若是早了六十年，却又如何？”张十五道：“那时凭两位这般英雄气概，豪杰身手，去到临安，将这奸臣一把揪住，咱三个就吃他的肉，喝他的血，却又不用在这里吃蚕豆、喝冷酒了！”说着三人大笑。杨铁心见一壶酒已喝完了，又要了一壶，三人只是痛骂秦桧。那跛子又端上一碟蚕豆、一碟花生，听他三人骂得痛快，忽然嘿嘿两声冷笑。杨铁心道：“曲三，怎么了？你说我们骂秦桧骂得不对吗？”那跛子曲三道：“骂得好，骂得对，有甚么不对？不过我曾听得人说，想要杀岳爷爷议和的，罪魁祸首却不是秦桧。”三人都感诧异，问道：“不是秦桧？那么是谁？”曲三道：“秦桧做的是宰相，议和也好，不议和也好，他都做他的宰相。可是岳爷爷一心一意要灭了金国，迎接徽钦二帝回来。这两个皇帝一回来，高宗皇帝他又做甚么呀？”他说了这几句话，一跷一拐的又去坐在木凳上，抬头望天，又是一动不动的出神。这曲三瞧他容貌也不过二十来岁年纪，可是弓腰曲背，鬓边见白，从背后瞧去，倒似是个老头子模

样。

张十五和郭杨二人相顾哑然。隔了半晌，张十五道：“对，对！这一位兄弟说得很是。真正害死岳爷爷的罪魁祸首，只怕不是秦桧，而是高宗皇帝。这个高宗皇帝，原本无耻得很，这种事情自然做得出来。”

郭啸天问道：“他却又怎么无耻了？”张十五道：“当年岳爷爷几个胜仗，只杀得金兵血流成河，尸积如山，只有逃命之力，更无招架之功，而北方我中国义民，又到处起兵抄鞑子的后路。金人正在手忙脚乱、魂不附体的当儿，忽然高宗送到降表，说要求和。金人的皇帝自然大喜若狂，说道：议和倒也可以，不过先得杀了岳飞。于是秦桧定下奸计，在风波亭中害死了岳爷爷。绍兴十一年十二月，岳爷爷被害，只隔得一个月，到绍兴十二年正月，议和就成功了。宋金两国以淮水中流为界。高宗皇帝向金国称臣，你道他这道降表是怎生书写？”杨铁心道：“那定是写得很不要脸了。”张十五道：“可不是吗？这道降表，我倒也记得。高宗皇帝名叫赵构，他在降表中写道：‘臣构言：既蒙恩造，许备藩国，世世子孙，谨守臣节。每年皇帝生辰并正旦，遣使称贺不绝。岁贡银二十五万两，绢二十五万匹。’他不但自己做奴才，还叫世世子孙都做金国皇帝的奴才。他做奴才不打紧，咱们中国百姓可不是跟着也成了奴才？”

砰的一声，郭啸天又在桌上重重拍了一记，震倒了一只酒杯，酒水流得满桌，怒道：“不要脸，不要脸！这鸟皇帝算是哪一门子的皇帝！”张十五道：“那时候全国军民听到了这个讯息，无不愤慨之极。淮水以北的百姓眼见河山恢复无望，更是伤心泣血。高宗见自己的宝座从此坐得稳若泰山，便道是秦桧的大功。秦桧本来已封到鲁国公，这时再加封太师，荣宠无比，权势薰天。高宗传孝宗，孝宗传光宗，金人占定了我大半边江山。光宗传到当今天子庆元皇帝手里，他在临安已坐了五年龙廷，用的是这位韩胄韩宰相，今后的日子怎样？嘿嘿，难说，难说！”说着连连摇头。郭啸天道：“甚么难说？这里是乡下地方，尽说无妨，又不比临安城里，怕给人听了去惹祸。韩胄这贼宰相，哪一个不说他是大大的奸臣？说到祸国殃民的本事，跟秦桧是拜把子的兄弟。”张十五说到了眼前之事，却有些胆小了，不敢再那么直言无忌，喝了一杯酒，说道：“叨扰了两位一顿酒，小人却有一句话相劝，两位是血性汉子，说话行事，却还得小心，免惹祸端。时势既是这样，咱们老百姓也只有混口苦饭吃，挨日子罢啦，唉！

http://www.oklink.net/wxsj/jing-yong/shoot-eagle/001.htm

It has been so many “false” version of history since the world had history. If you don’t know how to see through the appearance to perceive the essence, it means that you haven’t master the subtlety of history yet.

I was left wondering why I am paying money for this jerk.

I don’t know who is jerk, but I know that someone who is smart enough seldom imputes all faults and wrongs on others.

孔子曰:三人行，则必有我师.是故弟子不必不如师，师不必贤于弟子，闻道有先后，术业有专攻，如是而已。

http://zhidao.baidu.com/question/44757459.html?fr=qrl

Just hope you can understand that even if you could be better than your teach in some aspect, it doesn’t mean that you have the right to call him / her a jerk, especially in public.

Cheers!

[gougou]

Let's try to stay on the topic (which was, err, Sarkozy swimming the Seine?) rather than getting dragged away into discussing the two T's or people talking about them, all three of which have plenty of topics devoted to them.

[zhxlier]

As for Mao, well surely no one's saying Deng or Jiang or Hu have anything like Mao's artistic ability?

Actually Jiang published a few poems in an awkward attempt to mimic Mao.

http://sq.k12.com.cn/discuz/viewthread.php?tid=100027&highlight=

Pay attention to how the post mentioning poems of other political figures.

Maybe it's the other way around: in China, calligraphy and poetic skills used to be (still are, perhaps) something pretty much expected of anyone of education, anyone fit to be a leader. A Chinese who doesn't know better might suppose that Western leaders also publish their handwriting. Westerners are not surprised that Bush is not a poet; Chinese are not surprised that Mao was.

Totally agree.

[wushijiao]

There's an unwritten rule in modern Chinese politics not to show off one's knowledge and to deviate to far from the mean in terms of one's own writings and one's quoting of poetry. (The big exception to that rule is Wen Jiabao, who frequently uses poetry to show his political intention and will).

In any case, my personal feeling is that Mao had a great sense of history, literature, and poetry, and was able to synthisize different concepts to make his own thoughts for his own various purposes.