Grammar Question, "For 30 minutes"

[Weskhan]

大家好, I have yet another sentence structure question.

I learned a new sentence structure today that I've been wanting to know for quite a long time. I was trying to say to a girl that "I must drive for 30 minutes", so this is what I said.

“我得开车开得30分钟。。。我知道这个句子不对。 我怎么说得对？"

Then she said, "也对　你应该这么说：我得开30分钟的车"

So apparently I can say it this way, but I should say that sentence.

Like always I'll line up my questions.

1) What kind of sentence structure is she using? Is there a name for it?

2) Can somebody explain this sentence structure for me?

3) Was my initial question really correct? Because it doesn't look right.

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Another thing, I also know that I can use "for 30 minutes" like...

我学习中文学了30分钟

So I know that structure, but what always confused me was how to say "I went to Shanghai for 1 month". I remember asking my teacher this, and was confused when she said that "一个月" comes before the verb. So would you say...

"我一个月去上海" That also just doesn't look right, as I'm just guessing. Could anyone tell me the correct way to say this and explain the sentence structure?

Thankyou.

[Hanlink]

You are probably right in thinking the Chinese is a little 'off', since you are being very literal in your translations.

For instance, in "I must drive 30 minutes", does not need the first 得 (must), you could use 才, e.g. 开车开30分钟才到. If you want to keep the must, it is more natural in the second part of the sentence: (我)开车得(déi)开30分钟(才到).

You should be careful in your use of the second 得 in the example you gave; this is much better used with adjectives, e.g. 开车开得好 (drive well); it works less well with time expressions

As for "I went to Shanghai for 1 month", what you are really saying is that you have been in Shanghai for 1 month, i.e. it is better not to think about translating the idea of 'going', thus: 我在上海(住)了一个多月(了) (there are lots of variants on that idea). However, if your idea is more that you went there one month ago, then it is more like: 我一个月前去了上海.

When the English being used is rather 'loose', you have to sometimes clear it up for the Chinese, although Chinese is also sometimes very loose in its phrasing.

[anon6969]

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Edited August 26, 2008 at 09:46 AM by anon6969

[HashiriKata]

I think your questions would be best answered by first looking at what you're more familiar with:

1. 我学中文学了30分钟.

(I reduced 学习 into 学 only to simplify the explanation.)

This is the type of sentence in which the verb (= 学) has both a direct object (= 中文) as well as an adverbial complement (= 30分钟).

In this kind of sentences, you can repeat the verb to accommodate these two elements separately (as you've already done in your example) because in Chinese, the direct object and the complement normally don't feel comfortable sitting directly next to each other:

我学了中文30分钟. (No)

However, in the cases where the adverbial complement is a time duration, you can actually let it sit next to the direct object but it has to go before the object:

2. 我学了30分钟中文. (Yes)

3. 我得开30分钟车. (Yes)

Still, there are people who would object the two elements sitting next to each other, so they would insert a 的 between the two elements to turn them into formally one unified element (30分钟的中文, 30分钟的车):

4. 我学了30分钟的中文. (Yes)

5. 我得开30分钟的车. (Yes)

So, what about your original sentence: 我得开车开得30分钟? It should be fine, if you take the 得 off (and rearrange the sentence a bit). Without 得, your sentence is analogous to example 1, where the verb is repeated to accommodate both the object and the adverbial:

6. 我开车得开30分钟. (Yes, but the best choice for this sentence is still No 5 above.)

And your "I went to Shanghai for 1 month"? I think that this sentence actually contains two concepts, those of "going" and "staying", so I personally would say "我去上海呆了一个月"

Edited August 26, 2008 at 09:30 AM by HashiriKata

[Weskhan]

Thank you for your replies.

One more question, could somebody explain how Hanlink uses "才“ in the sentence "开车开30分钟才到"?

[Artem]

开车开30分钟才到 can loosely be translated "drive for 30 minutes before arriving."

the 才 here serves the purpose of indicating time passed before something happened. Generally you can use 才 and 就 for that purpose. 才 usually carries connotation that it happened later than expected (or sometimes, as in this case, it is just a marker of time passing). 就 tends to indicate that something happens sooner than expected.

Atleast, that's how I understand it. There's probably a better way of explaining.

[Hanlink]

才 means 'and only then...' in this context. It can be very difficult to get to grips with the use of 才 if you are not exposed to Chinese a great deal, since in English, it can be very ugly to say "I drove 30 minutes and only then did I arrive', it is obviously smoother to say something like: "I had to drive 30 minutes to get there', but from the second example, a translation in Chinese using 才 is not obvious - however, it works very well! It all gets back to what connotation you want to put on the sentence (if you used 就 in that example, it would work equally well, but there would be no idea of the 'must'). A couple of months in China even for a beginner tends to sort out these 'problems'.

Hanlink

[Weskhan]

Thanks for the replies.

Edited August 27, 2008 at 03:31 PM by imron