opportunities for a CS / math major in China

[chever]

I'm an American who might end up living in mainland China after I graduate. In school, I am studying computer science and applied mathematics up to the master's, if not doctorate level, and I understand there is always a demand for engineering skills and, in particular, a desire for people with Western educations. I have a few questions:

• What are some positions that are good for the public interest? I'm interested in, e.g., civil projects. Almost any engineering career pays well enough
  
• What can I do with operations research and artificial intelligence, specifically?
  
• What would be a good city to live in for my purposes? I'd prefer somewhere near northeastern Thailand and Laos
  

Thank you for your responses

[yonglin]

A few points to consider:

1. Chinese education might not be the best in the world, generally. In fact, it has some glaring weaknesses, but these are most obvious in the humanities/social sciences. If there is anything Chinese education can do, it's educating engineers. Moreover, a very large proportion of good Chinese students attend very good Chinese universities to study engineering. These individuals probably have better language/cultural skills than you do, so they'd probably make a better fit into almost every Chinese company than you would.

2. As for engineering projects of civil use, power systems engineering is very hot, since many parts of the country are still in the process of building electricity distribution systems. Chemical engineering might be useful if you'd prefer working in the oil fields of Xinjiang. Civil engineering will be hot in any developing/transitional country, I suppose. But note that as above, there will a very large number of competent Chinese graduates in these fields as well.

3. There might be "a desire for people with Western educations", but this statement is probably not valid in as general a sense as you believe. Your western education will serve you well if you work for a multinational corporation in the US for a good number of years, obtain an MBA and move into a senior management position, and get transferred to China. As far as I'm aware, only individuals in management positions would possibly be recruited from outside of China. All engineering positions would be filled locally.

4. A well-paid engineering graduate in China working for a local company might earn something like ￥2-3,000 per month. Competition is quite fierce, and many Chinese university graduates fail to find qualified jobs. If you want to earn more than that, you'd better have a pretty good reason why you should be paid more than a local.

Good Luck!

[chever]

Well, one reason I am something of a Sinophile is that my behavior is not and never has been typically American ... there are some ethnic groups I fit in with better than others. I don't show anger openly, don't like to embarrass people, etc. There are still plenty of distinctions, but I can live with them.

As you might have already guessed, I know several Chinese people who intend to start their own businesses in their home country and since they know about me and my capabilities personally, they would be willing to take me in for doing their OR, and maybe I can take it from there.

[HedgePig]

I'm not familiar with the engineering or computer science fields specifically but I think yonglin's analysis is spot on. Unless you offer very specific skills not available locally, I think it's going to be difficult to land a position, especially if you have little work experience. Of course, you could always get lucky. If you have contacts, as you mention in your second post, that is a different matter.

What are your Chinese language skills like? If they are good (at or close to business level), that would help matters somewhat.

Regards

HedgePig

[davidj]

positions that are good for the public interest?

I think you need to clarify what you mean by the public interest. Governments tend to interpret it quite liberally, as anything that keeps people in jobs (including, for example, direct marketing email). Even if the product of your work is in the public interest, your job will not be to work in the public interest, but that of your employer (based on experience in the West, but I see no reason why China should be different). The only way of being sure of acting in the public interest is to go self employed and sell services direct to the public, or to make a vast fortune, by working in the corporate interest, then become a benefactor.

operations research and artificial intelligence

Again in the West, companies that specialise in operational research, and probably also in AI, tend to do a lot of military contracts. For new graduates, in the West, they are the only sorts of company likely to employ a new graduate in those areas.

I would suggest that, if public interest is important to you, and if your definition is much narrower than typical government definitions, that you need to build up several years of experience in a familiar US environment, so that you understand how businesses really work and the commercial pressures on engineers.

[yonglin]

I didn't mean to offend anyone, but if it is the case that your friends will take you on in their companies, I kind of fail to see the reason for posting this thread in the first place...?! Things should be quite clear already...?!

[BrandeX]

Try here:

http://www.learn4good.com/jobs/language/english/list/country/china/

You can be a kindergarten, etc. teacher as you can see from the vast majority of the listings, but if you browse through them, there is occasional posts for engineers and such.

[liuzhou]

I know several Chinese people who intend to start their own businesses in their home country and since they know about me and my capabilities personally, they would be willing to take me in for doing their OR, and maybe I can take it from there.

Starting a business and getting permission to employ a foreigner to do a job many, many Chinese can do are two different things.

Your chances of getting a working visa are extremely limited. You can't just move to China because you fancy it any more than Chinese people can move to your country because they vaguely want to.

I'd prefer somewhere near northeastern Thailand

Then don't come to China. China doesn't have a border with Thailand.

[adrianlondon]

Doesn't have to adjoin to be considered "near". For example, living in Europe, I'd consider Kumning close to Thailand as it's only a two hour flight to Chiangmai ;)

[liuzhou]

Well, of course "near" is relative. Therefore meaningless.

[adrianlondon]

Everything is relative. Is everything meaningless?

[daofeishi]

Camus says: "Yes"

[roddy]

Ahem . . .

If you're concerned about 'the public good' then you might want to look at environmental technology - cleaning up and reducing pollution, clean energy such as hydropower (big in the southwest) wind and solar, etc.

[simonlaing]

There are a lot of Java and C++ programmers but other languages like Perl and XML stuff is in demand.

You may want to think about moving to China Shanghai, Guangzhou/ Shenzhen, get a 6 month teaching gig while to apply to companies with your CS engineering qualifications.

If you're in CHina they can pay you about the same as Chinese engineer which is good money in China. If you're coming from abroad that have to pay Expat package expenses which probably means they won't hire you.

Vietnam is getting more engineering jobs lately as well (following the factories).

I have a friend who teaches Video game programming, (graphics/level design part time and works at a programming company for the other 4 days of the week. )

Most Big chinese cities have direct links to Thailand, Chengdu is another up and coming IT center. Though I don't know as much about it as other cities.

Good luck,

SimoN:)

[yardennis]

Hi,

Can someone enlighten me on what is the monthly salary of a PHP/MYSQL programmer with 3-5 year experience in Chengdu ?

Also how much willI have to pay a clerk with some html knowledge in Chengdu ?

I am thinking of hiring one in Chengdu.

Thanks

Dennis