Kubuntu Intrepid: Skim, Language setting, general chat

[Hero Doug]

I just installed Kubuntu intrepid to test it out. I should have went for the stable release, but I really wanted to see the new KDE.

The download and install were both really easy, and I have to say it looks awesome. I'd saw it's the nicest UI I've had the pleasure of using.

The start menu pops up like windows xp, but when you go to browse applications for instance, they come scrolling across in the box instead of popping out to the side.

I've also noticed I can access sites I couldn't access on XP, such as the Ubuntu site itself (yeah, the download was fun) and Opera. Both are completely accessible now.

Also, Chinese characters were supported out of the box, however, typing Chinese characters isn't.

No matter what I do I can't get SCIM/SKIM to work. This is the problem with using the Alpha, is it SCIM or Kubuntu, or KDE, who knows?

My keyboard is also a little iffy. I can't use the number keys, or the delete key, but the rest of the keys are fine.

The third thing I'm having trouble with is the actual display of Chinese. I recently installed the Chinese language through the control panel and now Konrqueor has 1/4 of it's menu items in Chinese.

Right now I'm downloading Ubuntu 8, so if I can't fix these problems (and I doubt I will) I'll be using that until Intrepid reaches a stable state. When it does I'd suggest checking it out, even with these problems I'm still impressed.

[feisnik]

Thanks for the update Doug. Please let us know your experience with the GNOME-based Ubuntu.

[querido]

I recorded this how-to for myself some time ago. I just tried it again and it still works. I'm running KDE 3.5.9, but this previously worked under Gnome and also with *no* desktop environment.

NOTE: The following works under Debian Etch or Lenny. You might have to adjust it, but I suspect that the key is the setup with im-switch and scim-setup.

STEPS FOR DEBIAN ETCH OR LENNY:

install scim, scim-pinyin, libscim8c2a, im-switch

As user:

run scim, and then do ctrl-c to stop it

run "im-switch -s scim"

run scim-setup

reboot (shouldn't be necessary, but I don't know how to avoid it)

activate scim with ctrl+space

[Hero Doug]

querido, thanks for the post. SCIM is working perfectly, and the IM installed works much the same as the Google pinyin tool, just not as pretty. So the lesson learnt is to avoid SKIM altogether (which I have read is really buggy anyways) and just use SCIM.

Also, for some reason my keyboard works perfectly now. I think it was because I changed the keyboard layout to a generic 104 button board last night, so when I started up today it must have fully switched it to the correct layout.

The half English half Chinese problem in various UI elements has also been fixed. I just removed Chinese from the list of installed languages in k->computer->system settings->regional and language Actually I removed all the available languages because their just not needed.

Chinese displays properly, and I can type Chinese properly, the UI in Konqueror is in English, and Konsole stopped outputting instructions in Chinese. So, everything seems to be good. I guess I won't be switching to Ubuntu, I'll just stick with this system and update it as the releases are made.

One note that I would make for any would be converts is that the Adept package manager doesn't seem to work (or I don't know how to use it). I'd recommend learning how to use apt-get for installing software, and install synaptic (sudo apt-get install synaptic) for removing software.

[lemur]

I've used Gnome for ages and then tried KDE this summer for a good 3-4 months. I've reverted back to Gnome a few days ago. I could not find any major problems with Chinese in KDE but I just felt that KDE did not provide as polished an experience as Gnome does. Mind you, I was using Kubuntu so maybe the problem is really with Kubuntu and not KDE itself.

[imron]

I've been a KDE user since the 2.x days, and for a long time, it was IMO clearly the better desktop. I tried KDE 4 a few months back and I was not impressed - in fact I was so unimpressed I even started contemplating switching to Gnome.

[lemur]

imron, which distribution are you using? I'm curious because I frequently encounter advice saying that OpenSUSE provides a better KDE experience than Kubuntu for instance.

[renzhe]

I've been using KDE since the 1.1 days and I still use it, albeit in a heavily customised way that's very different from the default. While it may be true that the GNOME people do a better job with menu structure, being less confusing, and concentrating on the user experience, I find that the infrastructure and tools provided by KDE and which are useful for power users blow anything else out of the water.

I heard that KDE 4.0 was quite a mess, but I've had a look at the latest 4.1 yesterday and it looked incredible.

I use Gentoo, FWIW.

[imron]

I've just been using Kubuntu, but currently don't really run Linux as my main OS. I might check out the latest 4.1 or OpenSUSE and see if there's any hope.

While it may be true that the GNOME people do a better job with menu structure, being less confusing, and concentrating on the user experience

Haha, it certainly wasn't always like that. I remember several years back deciding to re-evaluate Gnome and got so fed up hunting through the menus and options trying to add an extra keyboard layout that I gave up on it - well actually that was just one of several reasons. The clincher was a Gnome app that would crash and screw up Gconf, therefore causing me to lose (and therefore need to re-enter) all my mail settings and other configuration data. When that happened the second time in as many days I switched back.

I use Gentoo, FWIW

Haha, why am I not surprised

[renzhe]

Haha, why am I not surprised

I'm guessing it's that time I suggested vim regexps to that poor soul.

[Hero Doug]

I used KDE a while back (not sure what version, but it wasn't 4.1 that's for sure) and wasn't impressed.

I find Gnome to be a lot like a Nokia phone. I don't need to read any manuals or tutorials to figure out how to use the UI they provided.

The latest KDE is impressive, but there were a few things that have crawled under my skin over the past couple days. One is the package manager. Synaptic in gnome is just hands down the best package manager I have ever used, in Kubuntu it's more like a tool to remove packages. And adept just doesn't cut it either.

I just tried to install a LAMP server and it didn't configure properly. I found out about tasksel and decided to try that. When removing mysql I received a warning that almost every package in Kubuntu was dependent on it (I figured it was a mistake). Apparently not, I'm not posting from Ubuntu 7.04, the latest CD I have.

I think in the end I've found Gnome easier to use, but the new KDE UI was better presented. I think I'll pick usability over appearance for a while, and stay away from the alphas.

[renzhe]

Those sound like Ubuntu-Kubuntu problems, not GNOME vs. KDE issues.

None of these problems (synaptic, LAMP, mysql, etc.) are GNOME/KDE related.

The sad thing is that Ubuntu is a GNOME-centric and GNOME-only distribution and Kubuntu is basically glued on top of that and not really well-supported. KDE under Ubuntu is not a very pleasant ride.

[Hero Doug]

I've always thought that the only difference between Ubuntu and Kubuntu were the graphical desktop managers. Both Gnome and KDE are designed to run on top of the same software set, so it makes sence that under the hood they use the same software.

Either way, you make a good point, Kubuntu just didn't seem up to par with Ubuntu. I may try it again when it's out of Alpha and see how that goes.

[renzhe]

The main difference between Ubuntu and Kubuntu is that Ubuntu has 300 paid people working on it and Kubuntu has 1. *

The Kubuntu version is kind of an afterthought. Ubuntu has always been extremely GNOME-centric and many of their setup and administration tools are built by Ubuntu people to fit specifically with GNOME. All of these things are missing from Kubuntu, at least that's my understanding.

A much better KDE-centric distribution is supposed to be OpenSUSE, they've always had excellent KDE support.

*) very exaggerated, but true in principle.

[imron]

so it makes sence that under the hood they use the same software.

Nope, under the hood they are completely different beasts and use a completely different set of libraries.

[renzhe]

I think that Hero Doug was referring to deeper stuff, like MySQL, Apache, and the package manager apt (and its frontends).

But the fact is that neither GNOME nor KDE actually use any of this stuff. This is Linux-specific and in some cases Ubuntu specific (with the apt package manager), and you can use them from GNOME or KDE or without them.

The thing that distributions sometimes do (especially Ubuntu) is they provide nice tools for managing hardware, packages, databases, webservers, and all that stuff you usually have to do by hand.

Ubuntu provides much of this for GNOME only, which is why your KDE experience was lacking. If you use something like OpenSUSE, you'll find that their administration tool (yast) does pretty much all of that, only integrated into the KDE environment.

[Hero Doug]

Good points about Gnome-centric and KDE-centric distributions, it seems very true.

As for "under the hood" I was refering to the Linux kernel, x11, and other core software like the printer manager of the device manager.

I don't see why they would want to use two different libraries for the same task when all they need is to do implement the administration display to them differently.

I haven't studies Linux in depth, so there might be something I'm missing here.

[imron]

I don't see why they would want to use two different libraries for the same task

Politics.

Briefly summarised, way back when, there were no desktop environments as such, just window managers. Then KDE came out, based on the QT tookit, which at the time was under a dual license that wasn't free enough for some and so a bunch of people decided to create a completely free (as in speech) desktop, built on completely free (as in speech) libraries, and hence Gnome was born. Then the QT toolkit switched completely to the GPL, making everything a bit moot, but by then Gnome was already going strong and so you essentially have two groups working on two projects that aim to do the same thing, but have more or less separate code bases.

[Hero Doug]

That makes a lot of sence.

And as a sidenote, I am using Vista right now and I have to say it reminds me a lot of the new KDE. It has a really nice feel to it.

[renzhe]

Does anyone know about the status of SCIM under the new KDE? I'm planning to install it over the weekend, and this feature is sort of important.

Is there are SKIM for 4.x or will I be using the GTK interface?