is 9k reasonable in GZ?

[ronny3247]

hello people.

i have a job opportunity as an english teacher in guangzhou. 18 hours teaching time and 20 hours prep. so a total of 38 hours work per week. salary is 9000RMB per month and accommodation is not provided. i have a bachelor's degree in an unrelated field and no TEFL experience.

in this context, i would like to know whether 9k is reasonable or not.

any comments would be appreciated. thanks.

[BrandeX]

That's going to be at the bare minimum, and only if it's really great otherwise, or has some good benefits. Usually if its a full time 40 hour at a training center, you should be pulling over 10k. I am currently getting 13 and a half for 16 to 18 hours weekly, with almost no prep, maybe a couple hours a week extra time, (this isn't a "standard" job, I'm working for/with koreans and off the book so to speak) but with no other benefits outside of straight cash salary. For a legit place, they should definitely be giving you a Z visa, and in the neighbor hood of 10k + benefits (air fare, accomodation, etc.) if you are in Guangzhou. Now, if this is a public type school (didn't sound like it, but not certain from your post), then 9K plus benefits would be pretty normal, but I'd expect a couple more K and/or benefits from a private place for full-time work.

[ronny3247]

BrandeX, thx for your reply. it's a private language school. they arrange the visa and pay for the airfare, but no accommodation. from what you said, 9k seems low. if i could get 12k out of them would it then be reasonable? otherwise i might look for a different job.

[BrandeX]

That would be a good salary, once you hit 10k + benefits is the norm for full time training centers, that "Aren't" trying to scam people I just took a look at the first page or listings on esl cafe, and they are all at 9500 to 13000 GZ

[flameproof]

There are lots of black sheep in the market. Get as much information as you can and insist of talking to other foreign teachers in that school. I would ALWAYS presume I get cheated in China and would really require proof to the opposite.

Here is one teachers horror story: http://www.whiterabbitsmom.org

[HashiriKata]

I would ALWAYS presume I get cheated in China and would really require proof to the opposite.

That is slandering!

And this is scaremongering:

Here is one teachers horror story: http://www.whiterabbitsmom.org

I live in Europe and I'm not a stranger to stories of cheating and murdering of foreigners that happen around me from time to time, but it would be very indecent of me to tell everybody about these things as if they were foremost in my mind when someone makes enquiries about the place where I live and where I earn my livelihood from.

PS: flameproof, based on the information you just offered, I'd advise you to get out of the country fast, before your life ends up being another sad story.

Edited September 25, 2008 at 07:56 AM by HashiriKata

[flameproof]

PS: flameproof, based on the information you just offered, I'd advise you to get out of the country fast, before your life ends up being another sad story.

I doubt your redneck advise is that useful. I know very well how to protect myself in China. Have you ever been to China?

Now think again and try to add something useful that really helps the poster.

Yes, the White Rabbit case is unusual and extreme. Unhappy and cheated teachers are very common.

[roberts]

9 K for GZ

I was in GZ for 4 months. Accommodation seemed to run from 2600rmb per month

upwards, and then there is elec. gas, phone. So i think you'd be doing 38 hours

a week for maybe 5,500rmb per month. Taxi flag fall in GZ starts at 12.5Rmb though

there are buses. There are many jobs paying 5 to 6000rmb for 16-18 classes per week and you don't have to sit in an office for 20 hours as a show piece. I'd go for one of those.

[flameproof]

Whatever you do, be careful with your contract. Prepare for the worst and make sure you can get out from the contract. Presume that they will insist that you stick to the contract - but they don't care about it at all. If any doubts, it's very unlikely that you will be able to enforce any contract terms.

Really talk to other foreigners in that school. If they are reluctant to let you drop them.

I would also advise to start with a F visa. GZ is close enough to go to Hong Kong for a new visa. Get a Z visa when everything is fine after a few month. If you get a Z visa right away and you just bail out I am not sure if that break may hinder any new employment.

There are plenty of resources and chat boards of teachers in China.... (I saw you are doing your homework - get as much information as you can!)

http://china.eslteachercafe.com/

http://www.esl-jobs-forum.com/viewforum.php?f=33

http://www.esl-galaxy.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=7

http://www.china-teachers.com/

http://www.eslteachersboard.com/cgi-bin/forum/index.pl

[BrandeX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by flameproof

I would ALWAYS presume I get cheated in China and would really require proof to the opposite.

That is slandering!

And this is scaremongering:

Quote:

Here is one teachers horror story: http://www.whiterabbitsmom.org

I live in Europe and I'm not a stranger to stories of cheating and murdering of foreigners that happen around me from time to time, but it would be very indecent of me to tell everybody about these things as if they were foremost in my mind when someone makes enquiries about the place where I live and where I earn my livelihood from.

PS: flameproof, based on the information you just offered, I'd advise you to get out of the country fast, before your life ends up being another sad story.

Absolutely - consider the fact that when doing business with anyone in China, they will attempt to what we westerners call "cheat you" (just good business to them I guess). Just about any Chinese person will tell you as much as well. Also if you befall some mysterious fate and die here, I'd expect to definitely fall off the radar and disappear/become a mystery. Neither gov is going to want to deal with a foreigner "here", maybe in some other place, but not in China. Intl. laws don't cross this border very much (piracy/counter-fitting/health standards of products/etc to name some "simple" non obtusely criminal activities).

[flameproof]

Absolutely - consider the fact that when doing business with anyone in China, they will attempt to what we westerners call "cheat you" (just good business to them I guess). Just about any Chinese person will tell you as much as well. Also if you befall some mysterious fate and die here, I'd expect to definitely fall off the radar and disappear/become a mystery. Neither gov is going to want to deal with a foreigner "here", maybe in some other place, but not in China. Intl. laws don't cross this border very much (piracy/counter-fitting/health standards of products/etc to name some "simple" non obtusely criminal activities).

And with that in mind you can progress and do well in China. And seriously, with no TEFL experience you can presume that a real quality institution would not hire you. Means you will move to a lower level institution.

In terms of business, it takes experience and the same care. In business I worry less about the obvious cheat and more about incompetence - and lots thereof. There is some safety when you deal only with big companies, but even their **** happens (and that's my job is safe).

[HashiriKata]

I doubt your redneck advise is that useful.

Useful to whom, that is the question, baby. I'm sure the streets of HongKong and China would be cleaner without some types of elements.

[flameproof]

HashiriKata

I know, you feel offended. But the advise "get out of here" is not a basis for any discussion. Specially to a user who wants to get in.

People who know the system can get through it with reasonable easy. For newcomers to China I can only advise to read as much as possible and connect to other people in that job, field, school etc. Do not believe people will work hard to do you good and will always make you have a fair deal. Not in China, as everybody in China, incl. all Chinese will tell you.

With that in mind you can progress and have a good time.

[ronny3247]

thank you for the information everyone.

i surely have a lot to consider.

i often hear of these jobs which are only 20 hours per week and pay quite well. however, when i look at the ads, the majority look kind of dodgy.

the private language school i've got an opportunity with is very well known. i'm thinking that perhaps i should go with them, despite a lower salary, until such time that i am familiar enough with china to discern which of those short hours/reasonable salary jobs are legit.

i have not seen the contract yet, but i'll certainly scrutinize it closely.

[Churada]

I just came back from Guangzhou, where i was visiting my girlfriend.

She is an accountant and earns 3.5K RMB a month which she says is a good wage.

She shares a two bed apartment with another girl and her rent is around 1000RMB per month.

There seems to be a big gap between what she earns and lives on and what people here are saying is needed to live on?

[BrandeX]

That's because locals and western foreigners live completely different lifestyles.

[roddy]

Plus there are supply and demand issues - Chinese schools have trouble finding and retaining foreign teachers, hence competing on salary.