Adopting Chinese surname

[vinhlong]

Hi, I've noticed that when Westerners pick a Chinese name, they also adopt a Chinese surname.

Personally I find this a bit odd, and it does not feel right for me. Maybe it's my twisted view. I'm an overseas Chinese, so my views probably differ from the Mainland Chinese.

I know of one person who adopted the same Chinese surname as I have. And honestly I felt insulted. I have a rather rare Chinese surname, so that may also be part of the reason, why I feel like that. That person picked that surname because it is considered a 'high' surname. And I imagine he feels good about that.

But my view is, he didn't 'earn the right' to that surname, because: It wasn't given to him by a member of the clan/family with our surname based on his merits, so he's not adopted into the clan/family, and has no real allegiance to our ancestors, nor live by our traditions.

I was wondering if I'm the only one who views it like this.

[AxelManbow]

It's not unusual for locals to adopt a second name, surname and all, be based in superstition, that their existing name, or even their given name is too/isn't enough grand sounding.

If I lived by my name and family's traditions I'd be a fisherman in a small Scottish village. Needless to say, I'm not. Names are abstracted at best.

[HashiriKata]

But my view is, he didn't 'earn the right' to that surname, because: It wasn't given to him by a member of the clan/family with our surname based on his merits

Nobody earns any right to anything, vinhlong. All is given to us. I'm probably the most beautiful girl here but that's also given to me, and is not something that I have "earned". That's why, you see, I'm always generous and grateful.

[vinhlong]

I know it's Chinese tradition to adopt multiple personal names for different things, like writer's name, great name after marriage, etc.

Don't remember hearing about them changing their surname, though. Only case I know was when people had to change their surname because of changes in imperial dynasties.

I wasn't really talking about occupations, rather about rules, values, conduct and preserving what the family stands for. There are families who will cut off branches for breaking these...

So surnames are actually not that abstract.

Nobody earns any right to anything, vinhlong. All is given to us. I'm probably the most beautiful girl here but that's also given to me, and is not something that I have "earned". That's why, you see, I'm always generous and grateful.

Every woman is beautiful HashiriKata, it's their personality which defines how ugly they are...

[HashiriKata]

Every woman is beautiful HashiriKata, it's their personality which defines how ugly they are...

That's why, you see, I'm always generous and grateful.

[Artem]

I think maybe you are just simply overreacting. Names are just that names. And I'm sure there is more than one family who are completely unrelated but have the same last name as you.

At worst, you should be honored that out of all the names out there, the person found your last name to be the most beautiful for his/her name.

Plus you should also consider that if you are overseas Chinese, your surname is a romanization (spelling mistake?). I'm sure there's dozens of last names that have matching romanization to yours. What I mean is, if you feel so strongly about surnames being only your family/clan, then do you write your name only in Chinese characters? Do you teach every person to pronounce it with proper tones, or do you just settle on how they can read the romanization?

[L-F-J]

dont be too possessive!

unless of course you've done something "great" for your family/clan, earning you the right to say who can use the name. otherwise, its simply ridiculous to react like that. possessive, egotistical...

all you have likely done to receive the surname was to be born. it was not given to you based on your merits. maybe some chinese feel insulted that an overseas chinese uses the surname?? that would be funny.

that may come off too strong, as if a personal attack, but just look at the ridiculousness of it. come on now.

[Lu]

Hi, I've noticed that when Westerners pick a Chinese name, they also adopt a Chinese surname.

Personally I find this a bit odd, and it does not feel right for me. Maybe it's my twisted view. I'm an overseas Chinese, so my views probably differ from the Mainland Chinese.

I know of one person who adopted the same Chinese surname as I have. And honestly I felt insulted. I have a rather rare Chinese surname, so that may also be part of the reason, why I feel like that. That person picked that surname because it is considered a 'high' surname. And I imagine he feels good about that.

But my view is, he didn't 'earn the right' to that surname, because: It wasn't given to him by a member of the clan/family with our surname based on his merits, so he's not adopted into the clan/family, and has no real allegiance to our ancestors, nor live by our traditions.

I was wondering if I'm the only one who views it like this.

I think you're overreacting. Yes, it's quite normal for westerners who go to China to adopt a Chinese name, and that almost always includes a surname, mostly to make things easier, to not have oneself mispronounced again and again, and also for the exotic appeal, I suppose. If you take issue with that, you might as well take issue with the millions of Chinese who adopt a foreign given name.

A surname is not bestowed on you, you just get whatever name your mother's husband has. Whether you end up wildly successfull, or a disgrace on your family, or turn your back on all family traditions, the surname won't be taken from you. So I don't think it makes sense to say your friend didn't 'earn' the surname, since nobody earns their surname. On the other hand, it would make no sense for your friend to consider it a 'high' surname. AFAIK there are no higher or lower surnames in China, just common ones and rare ones. Both have their appeal to different people.

Perhaps you have never met anyone with your surname not related to you, and now you feel your friend is breaking his way into your family. I can understand that. But keep in mind that there are likely hundreds or thousands of people with your surname, none of them related to you, and your friend will only be one more.

If it bothers you a lot, maybe you can ask your friend to pick another surname.

[vinhlong]

I can understand why people think I'm overreacting. I find it interesting that most people find their family names as something abstract. I guess most people are not brought up with those kind of values.

Whether you end up wildly successfull, or a disgrace on your family, or turn your back on all family traditions, the surname won't be taken from you.

That is where you are wrong, and in some traditional families where family honor and blood revenge are still prevelant, more is taken from you...

If you take issue with that, you might as well take issue with the millions of Chinese who adopt a foreign given name.

I don't have a problem with people adopting different given names. Whether they are foreigners adopting Chinese given names or Chinese adopting foreign given names.

Too me there is a huge difference between surnames and given names.

Or maybe you actually have a hidden aversion to the 鬼佬?

I feel the same about somebody changing their surname from Anastassakis to Aniston for example. I find it respectless towards one ancestors. So to me this is not specific to westerners adopting a Chinese name.

When I was little somebody pointed out that Asians regard the family name of higher importance than their given names. Hence Asians put their family name first. Westerners regard their family name of little value, hence they put their family name last. Maybe this is also because of the fact that many western family names only date since Napolean?

Based on the reactions here, is it ok to reach the conclusion that it's true?

BTW, the person I'm talking about is no friend of mine.

[yonglin]

When I was little somebody pointed out that Asians regard the family name of higher importance than their given names. Hence Asians put their family name first. Westerners regard their family name of little value, hence they put their family name last.

Hungarians are quite Western/European...

[mpallard]

As a Westerner I don't believe that you have earned the right to use our alphabet so please stop using it to write your last name.

[Lugubert]

When I was little somebody pointed out that Asians regard the family name of higher importance than their given names. Hence Asians put their family name first. Westerners regard their family name of little value' date=' hence they put their family name last. Maybe this is also because of the fact that many western family names only date since Napolean?

Based on the reactions here, is it ok to reach the conclusion that it's true?

[/quote']

I don't think so. The Chinese way of naming is consistent with the writing of date/time or addresses: Start with the general concept, and proceed to more detailed items. For time, I (a Swede) will write for the time of posting, 2008-10-18, 21.25.00. That's obviously (I hope) 25 minutes past 9 p.m., and with just 12 months in a year, it should be clear that I refer to October. But we write addresses the other way round: we start with the name, go on with the street, then the municipality, and, if needed, finish with the country.

[L-F-J]

mpallard and Lugubert- two great responses!

[Lu]

I think for foreigners it's a practical issue. I (and others as well, I suppose) am not trying to worm my way into any Chinese family when I adopt a Chinese name, and I also don't turn my back on my real surname. My Chinese surname is just to make things easier. Chinese who go abroad often adopt an English given name (how is that not respectless to one's parents, who gave them a name?), and write their Chinese surname in romanization to put behind their western given name (thus making their surname less important, if you believe in such a theory). In China, putting one's original surname in front and a Chinese given name behind just won't work, and so the entire name is sinified.

I feel the same about somebody changing their surname from Anastassakis to Aniston for example. I find it respectless towards one's ancestors. So to me this is not specific to westerners adopting a Chinese name.

I see your point here, but at the same time I can understand how a new immigrant wants to be part of their new country as soon as they can, and so they Americanize their surname. But this is different from westerners adopting a Chinese name: rarely the Chinese name becomes a foreigner's real and only name, it almost always stays a name for certain places (China) and occasions (interaction with Chinese). I am proud of my surname, and would never give it up, even though it's often misspelled and mispronounced, but I don't feel that I am disrespectful to my family or ancestors by adopting a Chinese surname for use in China.

That is where you are wrong, and in some traditional families where family honor and blood revenge are still prevalent, more is taken from you...

Yes, but that's a different issue. If you are cut out of the family and never spoken to again (which is bad enough), you'll still need a surname, and that will usually be the same one you already had. (If you're killed for the family's honour, that's a different issue, that has little to do with surnames.) And again, what has any of us done to 'earn' their surname? All we did was be born.

[Scoobyqueen]

As a Westerner I don't believe that you have earned the right to use our alphabet so please stop using it to write your last name.

Great response. Reminds me of a holiday in Kenya where the Western holiday makers were accused by the locals of stealing their sun.

[steve_c]

I'm an American, in Taiwan, and took a Chinese name for the reasons that Lu stated:

Yes, it's quite normal for westerners who go to China to adopt a Chinese name, and that almost always includes a surname, mostly to make things easier, to not have oneself mispronounced again and again, and also for the exotic appeal

As far as my English surname goes, while I'm proud of it, I wouldn't say it exactly reflects who I am as a person. In fact, I recently discovered something quite humorous about it. My surname refers to where my Scottish ancestors came from, the Mull of Kintyre. Click on the link and you'll see what I mean

[L-F-J]

I think this is a bit over the top.

i think the whole idea of this thread is a bit over the top. how ridiculously possessive can you get?

[mpallard]

Zhxlier,

You should be truly embarased by the last line of your response.

[Lugubert]

mpallard, I think you should have used a smiley i your previous post

[renzhe]

I have a hard time understanding the problem.

But my view is, he didn't 'earn the right' to that surname, because: It wasn't given to him by a member of the clan/family with our surname based on his merits, so he's not adopted into the clan/family, and has no real allegiance to our ancestors, nor live by our traditions.

So if I :

- pick a Chinese surname

- find a random Chinese guy who has this surname

- ask him whether it's OK to use it and he says "yeah"

then it's OK?

I also think that hallucinating "traditions" and "allegiance" among all the people named "李" or "张" is pushing it a bit. Does a Korean named "李" observe the same clan traditions as a Chinese guy living in San Francisco?

If a guy names "李" doesn't deserve the name because he doesn't follow the clan tradition, would you take the right to use the name away from him?

When I was little somebody pointed out that Asians regard the family name of higher importance than their given names. Hence Asians put their family name first. Westerners regard their family name of little value, hence they put their family name last. Maybe this is also because of the fact that many western family names only date since Napolean?

This is jumping to conclusions. Basically all European and American countries consider the family name more important, and the sequence in which they are written is just a convention and nothing more.