我再也忍不住 no 了

[anonymoose]

In an online conversation, one of my friends wrote 我再也忍不住 without adding 了 onto the end. I thought that in such a case showing a change of state (再也), placing a 了 at the end would be compulsory. How can the lack of 了 be accounted for, and is there any difference in meaning or nuance with and without 了 at the end?

[mythia]

Adding 了 in this particular sentence would seem more natural, if the speech just ends there. However it's NOT compulsory to add 了 whenever you have 再也 in front.

For example,

”他再也没回来." --- "He never came back."

"我再也睡不着." --- "I could no longer fall asleep."

And even in the sentence in question, it would be otherwise natural if you go on to say ”我再也忍不住，我要发泄，我要造反，我要革命!" i.e. omission of 了 might indicate the speech hasn't run its full length.

[kenny123]

" 我再也忍不住了" is correct.

[anonymoose]

Thanks for the replies.

omission of 了 might indicate the speech hasn't run its full length

You're right, there was a following clause similar to your example. That helps clarify things somewhat.

So I have a couple of follow-up questions:

1.

Adding 了 in this particular sentence would seem more natural, if the speech just ends there.

So if the speech does just end there, but there is no 了 at the end, would this be considered to be incorrect/unnatural? Would a native speaker make this 'mistake'?

2.

And even in the sentence in question, it would be otherwise natural if you go on to say ”我再也忍不住，我要发泄，我要造反，我要革命!" i.e. omission of 了 might indicate the speech hasn't run its full length.

So, if one does go on to say something else, would it still be OK to add 了? In other words, would the following be natural?

我再也忍不住了，我要发泄，我要造反，我要革命!

[mythia]

The first follow up is one of the most challenging questions about Chinese I've seen on this board, it makes a native speaker scratch his head and think hard for an answer. Then again maybe I am just not smart enough, and I beg others to shed some light on this as well. By the way, should I mention that your desire to perfect your knowledge of a language is impressive.

1. 再也 is perhaps always accompanied by a negative phrase, like 没有，不，无法 etc. Sometimes, it is used to express more of your feelings than an actual fact, just as 我再也忍不住了, very probably your friend there was expressing a strong discontent for a current situation. Other examples are plenty --- 我再也不去那家饭店了；我再也不买盗版了 --- indeed, few native speakers would omit 了 there. It is more down to express your wills not to go to that restaurant and not to buy pirated products rather than to state the fact that it is impossible for you to do the above.

At other times, the actual fact is the topic. As in 他再也没回来. Here, adding 了 would be incorrect.

Of course, there are situations in between. And the usage of 了 will be at the discretion of the speaker. It is common that you hear people say 再也不去那家饭店；再也不买盗版, without 了, their intention is to emphasize the "fact" that they will not do so, so they omit 了 to make it sound like a fact. You may find this a stronger expression than that with 了.

2. 我再也忍不住了，我要发泄，我要造反，我要革命 is alright, since these clauses each has a complete meaning, and pretty much independent of each other. On the other hand consider this 我再也看不到 了 这个世界, apparently 了 should be behind 这个世界, because the content followed is part of the whole sentence. (Well I suppose you can write 我再也看不到了, 这个世界 in poems )

I hope I am not misleading, but would be happy to be shown otherwise.

ps:anonymoose, may I in turn ask you a favour to point out any mistakes or alien expressions in my English, things which would immediately read to you --- this guy's mother tongue can't be English.

[imron]

alien expressions

That's one right there

Personally, in this situation I would use something like 'strange' or 'unnatural' expressions over alien (with a preference for the latter). To me, the word alien almost always conjures up images of spaceships and martians, and I always chuckle when I see hotels with signs saying aliens are permitted to stay there.

[anonymoose]

Thanks for your detailed analysis. I wish everyone could answer questions like you.

ps:anonymoose, may I in turn ask you a favour to point out any mistakes or alien expressions in my English, things which would immediately read to you --- this guy's mother tongue can't be English.

There's absolutely nothing in your post that would give this away. In fact, until you said this, I wasn't sure whether your mother tongue was Chinese or English.

There's only one slight thing (if I'm to pick bones out of an egg), which is that "The first follow up is one of the most challenging questions about Chinese I've seen on this board, it makes a native speaker scratch his head and think hard for an answer." should actually be split into two sentences, thus, "The first follow up is one of the most challenging questions about Chinese I've seen on this board. It makes a native speaker scratch his head and think hard for an answer."

Nevertheless, many native English speakers are also bad at English grammar and write sloppily, so this in itself wouldn't give away the fact that you are not a native speaker. Indeed, your English seems to be better than many native speakers. Now if only my Chinese could get that good...

[HashiriKata]

" 我再也忍不住了" is correct.

Not necessarily. The way I understand the 了 in question is very similar to what mythia has said:

1. If you're simply reporting a fact, telling a story, describing something,... then the 了 is not needed here. However, if you want to convey your own feelings, making a comment, judgement of the situation,... then you use了 here to indicate that.

2. In a series of a sentences, the 了 is often attached to only the final sentence to signal the end of the series, the end of what you have to say to let other in, so to speak.

[mythia]

@imron

Cheers, points taken. Yeah I remember those signs for *aliens".

@anonymoose

Thanks for your reply. Interestingly enough, I was aware of the bone you picked when I wrote that sentence. At schools they used to teach "split into two sentences or add 'and' to join them". Fortunately I don't have to be half as pedantic as back then. But I am grateful for your words anyway.

@HashiriKata

Brilliant efficiency, you explained so nicely with so few words.

Actually I am waiting for a native speaker to have a check on this, friends I found to ask so far have all suggest that I sod off.

[theorem]

“我再也忍不住了” Is more natural

“我再也忍不住" Appears to be missing something. If you don't add "了“ I would get the feeling that you are still going to say some other verb after it, for example ”我再也忍不住被你虐待". If you didn't add the verb, then then sentence has a problem. After reading it I would think ”你再也忍不住什么啦？“. It's as if the sentence is incomplete.

[anonymoose]

theorem, thank you very much for your contribution. It is making more sense to me now.

HashiriKata

The way I understand the 了 in question is very similar to what mythia has said:

1. If you're simply reporting a fact, telling a story, describing something,... then the 了 is not needed here. However, if you want to convey your own feelings, making a comment, judgement of the situation,... then you use了 here to indicate that.

I understand this, but then how does this tie in with the role of 了 as identifying a change of state? Are these two concepts somehow related, or are they independent?

[HashiriKata]

how does this tie in with the role of 了 as identifying a change of state? Are these two concepts somehow related, or are they independent?

I think the 了 (in question) is connected to a change of state but not all changes of state need to be expressed by 了. For this reason, we don't see as many 了 in written language as we see them in the spoken version, although both are equal in the ability to convey changes. Also, the spoken language tends to feel more lively, animated, subjective, etc because of the larger number of 了 it carries.

[semantic nuance]

我再也忍不住了. 你老是疑東疑西的.

I cannot stand anymore. You're always suspicious.

Agree with theorem. When you only want to say 我再也忍不住了. With 了, the sentence sounds natural.

我再也忍不住你老是疑東疑西的 (了).

I cannot stand anymore that you're always suspicious!

You can either have (了) or not at the end of the sentence.

Also, you can use 我再也受不了了, which is more colloquial to me.

Hope it helps!

[Hanyu'sWay]

我发誓，从今天起再也不抽烟（了）。

我相信，经过这次教训，他们再也不会犯同样的错误（了）。

错过了这个机会，再也不会有更好的机会（了）。

他离开后，就再也没回来过。

In the first three examples. The sentence means the same with or without 了．