Should I stay or should I go? What to look for in a Job?

[simonlaing]

Hey Guys,

I have come to a bridge crossing. After learning Chinese to a decent level being able to read most things and do some translation and interpretation without much issues as well as getting a Masters in Business from a western school I have a choice of 3 jobs.

1. Teaching Job- Pays 14, 000 RMB a month Work is tiring 22 hours of class time a week plus management responsibilities of the western staff. The classes aren't big 4- 10 people and are prepared for you but it is still tiring and repetitive to teach the same set of classes again and again. -it is very stable , also has draw backs that I have to work evenings and one weekend daytime shift.

-Salary is pretty much maxed out though may increase a few hundred each year.

-Also all instruction is supposed to be in English so over time my language skills deteriorate. I am usually to tired to study after work.

2. Translation Job - Pay 12,000 a month Mostly Check translations and business correspondence. Occasional work doing interpretation and training of staff.

-improves chinese gradually, expands vocabulary base,

-Fairly stable job with a flex schedule which allows me to come in early and leave early to work out in the evenings and take classes then.

-Salary set to improve at least 10% each year.

-Future opportuinities in business development available

-Majority of time is in front of a computer translating or checking translations.

3. Manufacturing Chinese company PR position-Pay 12,000

In charge of newsletter and press releases as well as going to EU and US exhibitions/trade fairs 7-8 times a year to promote the company's products.

-The newsletter and press releases will be done in English

-Good opportuinity to get experience in PR and international trade.

-Fairly Stable job with opportuinities to travel

-Future potential position in the European or US offices.

-More fixed schedule might affect taking classes and working out in the evenings

-Growing tech company with hot products could be good to get in when it is small.

-Unknown pay scales and probably less likely to get promoted to upper management since it is a Chinese Firm.

-More valued since my Irish and US passports with chinese visa make me valuable in flexibility in Travel for a Chinese company.

-Not many other westerners in the company, (thus late turning on of the heat in winter only in December and other cultural work place issues to adjust to).

-Exhibitions and negotiations provide for interactions and good trade experience

So which of the following jobs would you recommend and why? Mention how much experience you have had in China as well just as a gage.

I live in a second tier city Nanjing where all these jobs would be based in.

Thanks,

Simon:)

[ABCinChina]

Before I make my vote, do you like to stay in China or is money more important?

[roddy]

And which one will leave you more free time for posting on the forums?

[Entropy_Rising]

Yeah, kind of like ABCinChina, before I throw in my two cents, I'd want to know more about what your goals are. But even without knowing little, I think my vote would be "not choice number 1" because the extra 2000 RMB seems to be the only thing going for it. Granted 2000 can do a lot in China nowadays, but choosing to live in China is all about getting the China experience and number 1 seems so inflexible as to not be worth the difference.

Good luck.

[trevelyan]

Of those three jobs I would take the third, but it is not much money. Advantage is the possibility to meet people and network into a better position.

[Scoobyqueen]

I can only comment on the 3rd option.

(I work in international PR)

You need to be extrovert, creative, positive, excellent networker, open-minded perfectionist (for hair-splitting a press release) but easy-going, being able to write well and creatively and above all have a journalistic feel. This means a sharp nose for news stories. Service-oriented to the point of overdoing it (the media is not an easy breed). You can never afford an "off-day".

Plus: The job is fun, busy and full of variety. Never a better buzz than when the share price goes up because of a story you identified. With a good entertainment budget you should be lunching in a new restaurant every day.

Minus: Long hours and work at weekends is normal and often it is at the expense of your personal life. In PR there is always plenty to do. There is a lot of administration involved including keeping endless distributions lists. management often doesnt value PR so you need to prove your value internally (can be time-consuming)

You neck is always on the line and that can be stressful for some (wrongly quoted, errors in press releases etc).

I can offer more comments if you wish. The salary you quote is not enough by any stretch. PR pays more than teaching and translation (but you also have to work for it). However, if you have no experience perhaps this is the right range. I recommend PR if you have the personal qualities.

[Yang Rui]

If those are really your only China options, I would suggest going back home. Unless you really want to be in China. I just think that you'd have to really want to stay here to accept the quite low pay on offer for work that seems very demanding. Maybe two years working (plus one year studying) in China has made me cynical and money-grabbing but I would not feel good about accepting any of those terms, and I would also be reluctant to work in a Chinese company. I just feel that somehow they will always try to screw you, or at the very least fail to help you realise your potential. I've seen too many people taken advantage of just because they really want to stay in China.

Would you have to stay in Nanjing? I think that if you moved to Beijing or Shanghai and hung around the right bars, chatting to the right people, you could get yourself a much better deal. To give you an example, I was a Chinese grad with one year work experience in the media in the UK and I got a job in Shanghai as locally-engaged staff with an American consultancy paying around RMB22,000 a month. Of course, that's not for everyone, but my point is that there may be options that you haven't considered. If you're more into translation, my advice would be to try and do it for foreign clients - in the transition before i got the job in Shanghai i did translation work for UK-based clients and was paid in pounds. It was quite easy to earn RMB12,000 a month for just a few hours work sitting around in cafes with a laptop, which gives you time to socialise and find other job paths. Of course it might take a while to find the right thing.

Sorry if this either adds more confusion or just is not what you want to do at all Good luck making the decision.

[Scoobyqueen]

I agree with the above post. additionally, in my experience chinese companies do not understand PR (yet) and its value. you could run the risk of it being a sales job. moreover, most chinese manuf companies are not high tech that develop new products hence news stories centre around additions to existing product range (me too products), personnel news, factory extensions, new suppliers, participation at shows....all a bit boring I think. A Western company may be more interesting.

[whitekblackq]

Yes - I vote for option 4 - looking for other options

[simonlaing]

Hi all thanks for your comments,

Before I make my vote, do you like to stay in China or is money more important?

At a certain point I and my chinese wife plan on moving to the US or Europe (probably Ireland, dual citizenship) Espicially when we have kids and they get to high school age but for now China affords a lot of opportuinities. Plus the economy seems like it is still booming.

And which one will leave you more free time for posting on the forums?

Though the translation company has the best chance to improve my chinese level even higher than it already is. I even can have classes on pronunciation accent improvement and using certain trados software etc.. As well as opportuinities for interpretation. So from a language improvement perpective the translation job is stronger.

Thanks ScoobyQueen for your input.

You need to be extrovert, creative, positive, excellent networker, open-minded perfectionist (for hair-splitting a press release) but easy-going, being able to write well and creatively and above all have a journalistic feel.

I am a very social, up beat person. I worked on a newspaper at undergrad for three years though I did as much logistics as writing and editing. I am not worried about being anal retentive about grammar and second meaning of words as I have done translation work with similar requirements.

There is a lot of administration involved including keeping endless distributions lists. management often doesnt value PR so you need to prove your value internally (can be time-consuming)

Could you explain a bit more on the proving your value. The company I'd be working for has separate departments for PR and Sales. Though I expect that I may be called in to do some Sales work when I go to exhibitions and trade fairs to represent the country.

A couple of other things about the decision. On the translation Job I have known the CEO for 5 years and have worked with him previously. It is a successful technology translation company which (before the current banking crisis) was thinking of listing on Nasdaq. Going with this company could produce a high position of department head and one where I could make important business decisions. This job I have a confirmed offer from. This job will require correspondence and advertising work with webpages and PPT sales pitches but due to the nature of translation will me more computer time than face time.

The Job Number 3 is a solar wafer and module company. This would make it a growth industry and something that could be considered helping the world. Being PR for this kind of company would be easier on the conscience than say a landmine manufacturer.

I have passed the first round and the PR manager seems to like me. So it is not a definite offer yet.

Some other friends have said that not being in a management decision-making role can still be fulfilling as it can give you experience in understanding the industry.

I leaning to number 3 because I am a people person even though I think the opportuinities for growth would be about the same for Job 2 and Job 3.

On the other section there are possibilities of being a Western University rep in China recruiting students and profs for both countries as well as a Federal gov't researcher back in DC (They need language skills bad). Though these are the two in the bush that are talked about but are not specific yet.

(Rambling again) So what would be the big negatives from taking Job 3? Working weekends? Scooby do PR folks get promoted to other parts of the company or do they usually stay PR until they switch jobs?

Thanks,

Simon:)

[Scoobyqueen]

Could you explain a bit more on the proving your value.

Happy to.

In my experience, PR is often not that well understood, in particular by sales and marketing. This situation therefore requires close liaison with these departments to make them feel like they have contributed (for example asking their opinion even though you don’t need it/involving them in meetings/decisions they don’t really need to be at. Result: it slows down the process). Often your ideas of announcing a particular release/or event is not seen as value-adding within the company and so you don’t have their support. You know it is a news story, the media confirms it, but because they have been working on the same project for two or three years they cant see it being of interest to the outside world. This requires persuasion skills and can be frustrating and indeed a job risk especially if the CEO has that view. You may not be invited to meetings and are therefore not privy to information you need to know especially when the press calls you because of a rumour that has leaked. So you need to stay on top of that and tell people you need to be there. Usually everyone thinks they can do PR too, so you may need to educate people that PR is a specialist skill, like pointing out to them how you handled the last product re-call (and how little you slept). It also means collecting all press clippings and forwarding them, often with personal thank you notes to the people involved. All these little things help raise the profile of PR in the company but can be time-consuming.

PR tends to be an area where people stay (because it is so fun). People who leave the profession tend to be people who are not cut out for the kind of pressure a crisis situation engenders. Other reasons for leaving include not having writing ability, not prepared to be at the media’s beg and call and not liking having to proactively sell stories at exhibitions and events. In large organisations, you can move easily into sales or marketing but do so before the end of the classical three year cycle and make sure you have impressed them if that is your aim. In medium sized companies it is more difficult because you are put into the PR category and there are fewer marketing and sales positions available. People who occupy then tend to be specialists. In a small company, you would probably be doing some marketing and sales stuff anyway and could create your own niche and indeed position. The strategy would be to find a good successor for your old PR job (if it is something you did well). It is not easy to move from pure PR to sales and marketing through changing companies.

[wushijiao]

I would lean towards job #3. It seems to have a future and getting in on the solar industry (right now) could be the best thing one could do.

On the other hand, option #2 might not be bad if you plan on leaving China for good, sometime in the near future. I think you could argue that while one is living in mainland China, you have a unique opportunity to improve your Mandarin to a very high level, and being abroad, or even in a place like Hong Kong, is not nearly as conducive towards hitting that goal. In other words, improving your Mandarin, especially spoken/listening plus written/academic/technical areas is a skill that very few Westerners have really done well )and could, therefore, be your competitive advantage in the future).

But, they all sound like good options. So, good luck!

[simonlaing]

On the other hand, option #2 might not be bad if you plan on leaving China for good, sometime in the near future. I think you could argue that while one is living in mainland China, you have a unique opportunity to improve your Mandarin to a very high level,

wushijiao

I find it interesting you say this as I would have thought it would be the other way around. The improvement of Chinese skills to high interpreter level or researcher level would be most useful in China. Other than interpreter and perhaps Chinese Professor /teacher what kind of jobs could you see a very high level of Chinese (versus a basic professional level) preparing a person for in the states or Europe?

To Scooby: This looks like a medium sized company to me, which is ok for me. They look as though they have low expectations of the westerner who fills the position. They want to increase brand promotion which is not a strong point of Chinese businesses but maybe possible in the future. I think Solar is still a fairly new industry and thus there is an opening in the market to create and market a new brand.

Thanks for your insights. They are helpful in realizing what I am getting into.

have fun,

Simon:)

Edited October 22, 2008 at 07:16 AM by simonlaing
grammar

[Scoobyqueen]

Simon,

I just thought of another aspect. It is probably easier to enter the translation field at any stage in your life whereas you need to enter PR fairly early on. You can always go back to translation later or do it part-time if you want to have one foot in it as it were.

My field of PR work includes some aspects of renewable energy. Solar is indeed an interesting field. There are currently a number of Chinese companies seeking opportunities in Europe. The contracts can be worth a fortune (eg for solar cells) but there are some problems on the quality front. Manufacturers guarantees of how long the systems should work do sometimes not correspond to tests (could be a PR issue ) and this is not just a Chinese issue for once.

[wushijiao]

I find it interesting you say this as I would have thought it would be the other way around. The improvement of Chinese skills to high interpreter level or researcher level would be most useful in China. Other than interpreter and perhaps Chinese Professor /teacher what kind of jobs could you see a very high level of Chinese (versus a basic professional level) preparing a person for in the states or Europe?

Well, I work in the NGO field in Hong Kong in an NGO that focuses on China. One of the reasons I have the job is that I can (fairly quickly) read scholarly articles, newspaper articles, reports, laws, and handle meetings in Mandarin. Quite frankly, we wouldn't hire anyone who couldn't be at those standards. I have a friend who is looking for work, and has basic Mandarin and decent Cantonese, but his not having a high degree of Chinese competence has prevented him from getting the jobs that he would like. I have another friend who is also in a similar situation.

So, this is just something to keep in mind. At some point, it really is a matter of degree. Having a basic professional level may be fine for some jobs (maybe most), and the opportunity costs of getting a bit better may not be worth it, since progress is slower once you are fairly proficient and it may be better to move to another country or get a more lucrative job that will enhance other skill sets. But I think that if one wants to get a job that is China related, knowing Chinese to a very high level (again, how high that level is will depend) should be seen as a vital asset. (And over time, the competition will only get more fierce).

It has been my experience that it is much easier to improve your Mandarin while living in mainland China, compared to abroad or even HK. Therefore, if you are only going to live in the mainalnd for another year or two, and if you want Chinese to be a vital asset for you when you are living somewhere else, it might make sense to heavily value the consideration of "having a job that will allow me to improve my Mandarin while making money" while you are still in the environment that is conducive towards Mandarin acquisition (ie, the mainalnd). Of course, you still need to weigh this factor relative to other factors.

Just my two cents though.

[simonlaing]

Hey all,

I chose the 3rd choice solar job. It ended up paying less than the 2nd and first jobs but hopefully the experience will be worth it.

Thanks for those of you giving advice and putting things in perspective. I think scooby is right about the issues in the job. The good thing though is the company will only do it's IPO in the middle of next year , so I will have 6 months to prepare and learn the industry.

Thanks,

SImon

[flameproof]

Should I stay or should I go?

I love that song!

PS: I like real big money, can make it here too....

[Scoobyqueen]

Hi Simon,

Great and good decision. It speaks in your favour that you evaluated the above posts so thoroughly and you can use this skill to sell yourself at your next job interview eg: Interviewer Question: please provide an example of your analytical skills?

If you are planning to promote solar technology in Europe next year, drop me a line as I am doing press relations for a big event here that may interest you. It covers technologies for producing renewable energy majoring on bioenergy and includes solar and to a lesser extent wind.

Good luck and well done for choosing the media relations profession.

[lilongyue]

Well, if you don't take the translation job, can I have it? Ha-ha. But seriously, I have professional translation experience, and lots of private translation experience (I translate Buddhist texts). I've been looking for a decent translation job, but have only found part-time work with bad pay. If you don't want the translation Q&A job, but want to help the company fill the position, send me a PM.

[simonlaing]

Thanks Scooby,

I think we're going to InterSolar next year, but no other big conferences due to financial crisis cut backs. But closer to the date I will contact you about it. I also have friends who live in a suburb of Stuggart in Southern Germany and may visit them in summer and might go to some renewable energy events then.

Lilongyue,

The translation company I was working for hasn't hired anyone as my replacement to my knowledge and are just depending on a couple of part-time free-lancers to pick up the slack. If things change and I hear of anything I will let you know.

I did know a friend who was translating Chinese opera subtitles for projection on the side of the stage. (It wasn't paid well though and she went to Shanghai eventually.)

Good luck,

Simon:)