Chinese pregnancy beliefs

[muyongshi]

Can anyone tell me from a impartial perspective if there is any really use in modern day society for this practice? I would think if there was western medicine would have something to say about it...

I understand the practice and after reading this have a relatively good idea as too what is being done by Chinese now but still feel that much of it is blown out of proportion.

Obviously a lot of rest is needed and there is a recovery period but what is that recovery period like in terms of length? Is it to the pint now where this is merely cultural and not at all necessary (in the Chinese practice- not resting and recovering)?

Any views would be appreciated...

P.S. I'm not a woman so I won't be able to understand from a personal perspective some of the things that will be mentioned.

[studentyoung]

I would think if there was western medicine would have something to say about it...

I think most western doctors don’t understand that there are great differences between western people’s constitution and Chinese people’s. (This is the key point here. If you can’t understand this, you can’t understand why Chinese women need to 坐月子.)

Obviously a lot of rest is needed and there is a recovery period but what is that recovery period like in terms of length?

The one month period is because the lochia (恶露) usually stops after a month.

Is it to the pint now where this is merely cultural and not at all necessary (in the Chinese practice- not resting and recovering)?

It is not merely cultural and not at all necessary. It is because Chinese women’s constitution and the clinical experience gained in Chinese people’s life for thousands of years.

Thanks!

[roddy]

Oh go on then, I'll bite. What are the major differences between the constitutions of Chinese people and Western people? I'm sure our ABC members will be eager to hear . . .

[heifeng]

hehe to westerners isn't it just called maternity leave.... whether or not it is a month will just depend on your company and~I would figure they wouldn't want you hanging around right after having a kid to lower their liabity if something happened to you...plus your productivity afterwards must be low with all that required milking or something...

________

another of heifeng's non value adding comments

[muyongshi]

Studentyoung I must say that was the most uninformative and absolutely biased response... I was hoping for something a little more scientific.... (i.e. proof)

And heifeng I agree but we don't have "rituals" surrounding it. And oh Lord help the poor fool who would tell an woman in the states that she couldn't shower after just having a baby...

[studentyoung]

What are the major differences between the constitutions of Chinese people and Western people?

I think it is really hard to explain, especially I can’t tell the major differences very clearly. But I can try to let you understand that by showing you an extreme case.

In India, people have no problem with their tap water, which is from Gangers River. They can drink it without getting any trouble. But foreigners in India are not so luckily. When their bodies don’t seem accept the water at all, ever the water has been boiled long enough to kill the germs in it. Very often, they have loose bowels, and some even get a fever.

Surely enough, you know the great differences between the constitutions of those local Indians and those foreigners, but can you tell me what are these differences?

Studentyoung I must say that was the most uninformative and absolutely biased response... I was hoping for something a little more scientific.... (i.e. proof)

All I can tell you is that the factors like food, water, whether, geographical position make people in one place differ from those in other place.

And oh Lord help the poor fool who would tell an woman in the states that she couldn't shower after just having a baby...

（啊，上帝啊，请你原谅他吧，他不知道自己在说些什么！）I don’t think you understand the conditions between most China’s rural towns and most US cities. After having a baby, a woman usually is tired and weak. If she gets a shower at this time at any common farmer’s house, where no air-condition is provided and also is in poor sanitary conditions, she might get a cold or even infection very easily. Though she usually is not allowed to have a shower, she can still use a hot towel to clean her body.

Thanks!

[muyongshi]

In India, people have no problem with their tap water, which is from Gangers River. They can drink it without getting any trouble. But foreigners in India are not so luckily. When their bodies don’t seem accept the water at all, ever the water has been boiled long enough to kill the germs in it. Very often, they have loose bowels, and some even get a fever.

Umm I think this is called immunity... It's not about constitution as you are referring to constitution, it's about the fact that this is what they drank from the time they were a child and have build up very natural immunities towards it.

I don’t think you understand the conditions between most China’s rural towns and most US cities. After having a baby, a woman usually is tired and weak. If she gets a shower at this time at any common farmer’s house, where no air-condition is provided and also is in poor sanitary conditions, she might get a cold or even infection very easily.

Okay, I'm following along .... um hum, conditions with differences, Chinese/US, rural/cities...hmmm...woman, baby after tired/weak. Wait a minute where is there a difference? Ok continuing no a/c poor farmer, or is that poor farmer no a/c poor sanitation= cold/infection easily. Okay so let me ask then a lady just having a baby is always prone to infection and poor sanitation could make it easier yes but a freaking cold! Come on man live in the 21st century! And you must obviously be thinking winter. Okay one or two seasons out of the year where an A/C would help but not with a cold! We don't get colds just because we are cold (despite what our ancestors think).

I'm not saying that what you have said has no logic. I can understand this reasoning for the poorer areas of China but in your explanation you have left out the cities! What about the differences between Chinese Cities and US Cities????? They do not have the same conditions you pointed out that exist in rural areas... Not to mention that in the countryside it is very likely birth through a mid-wife versus in a hospital. Can you tell with all those factors why this is still a necessary practice? And don't say constitutions are different... Everyone's constitutions are different and I know many Chinese that have a lot better constitutions than many Westerner's.

[gougou]

but in your explanation you have left out the cities!

So is the practice of 坐月子 followed in the same way in cities as in rural parts of the country?

Not to mention that in the countryside it is very likely birth through a mid-wife versus in a hospital.

If I recall correctly, 82% of Chinese babies are delivered in hospitals.

==========

Personally, I think it is very important to take a long rest. And to use A LOT of disposable products.

Full disclosure: Currently working for a manufacturer of adult diapers.

[muyongshi]

Thanks gougou I feel I can trust you so much more now with that disclosure...

As far as I have been told by my Chinese friends the practice is pretty standard everywhere and not very many differences exist between rural and city.

And that number is pretty decent so it just furthers my idea that this is now just something that is done that does not really have a basis as no one has been able to yet explain to me WHY it is done.

[studentyoung]

Umm I think this is called immunity... It's not about constitution as you are referring to constitution, it's about the fact that this is what they drank from the time they were a child and have build up very natural immunities towards it.

Now you might understand how the environment works on local people’s body.

Umm I think this is called immunity... It's not about constitution as you are referring to constitution, it's about the fact that this is what they drank from the time they were a child and have build up very natural immunities towards it.

I really don’t know how to describe it to you. In traditional Chinese medicine, one’s constitutions are described as虚, 实, 寒, 热, 湿, 躁, etc. Do you have any friend knows traditional Chinese medicine? I still wonder how to explain academic terms like 阴虚火旺, 寒体,化湿解表 in TCM to you. I think the meaning of the word 体质 in TCM is not identical with its English counterpart “constitution”.

What about the differences between Chinese Cities and US Cities????? They do not have the same conditions you pointed out that exist in rural areas... They do not have the same conditions you pointed out that exist in rural areas... Not to mention that in the countryside it is very likely birth through a mid-wife versus in a hospital. Can you tell with all those factors why this is still a necessary practice? And don't say constitutions are different... Everyone's constitutions are different and I know many Chinese that have a lot better constitutions than many Westerner's.

I think the word “constitution”is associated with health. How can I make it clear to you that different people have different 体质? OK, I show you another example. Even in the same health condition, and wounded in the same level, scars appear on black, yellow people much more possibly than on white people. That’s because of the effect of color element, color people are usually cicatricail diathesis瘢痕体质. Do you have some idea on why Chinese women need to 坐月子?

Thanks!

[muyongshi]

No because these constitutions that you are referring to are on an INDIVIDUAL basis and have nothing to do with the Chinese as a whole.

Get it? Look I am asking for actual evidence of why it is necessary not TCM. I'm not saying that I don't think TCM is legitimate or not, what I am saying is that every practice scientific is subject to the change of TIME. Now can we have a scientific discussion here?

And by the way if you took one of those aforementioned Indians and let them grow up in Europe or heck even the Chinese country side they would not be able to drink the water. Immunity and constitution are different. You keep referring to the constitution of the Chinese women based on a people group difference not an individual basis.

[roddy]

This gives some info on the origins

If you analyze Zuo Yuezi in an early medical context, many of the practices made sense. The avoidance of bathing and teeth-brushing was a way to prevent water-borne illness; staying indoors helped women and babies avoid exposure to communicable diseases, and covering the head protected new mothers from catching a ‘chill.’

Studentyoung, nobody is denying physiological differences - but I've yet to see any that make this practice a more advisable one for Chinese women than any other variety of female. Personally I think they probably all deserve a month of rest. Find me one piece of research that says 'Chinese women need to do X, Y and Z after childbirth. Other women don't.'

[muyongshi]

Interesting article and in reading it it seems that the basic recommendation is to really take it easy (not go out too much) and eat healthy but there is no need for some of the other more stingant rules.

[jonaspony]

I have read that the practice not only originated to protect the new mother, but also to protect the ritual cleanliness of others. Contact with blood was considered the most egregious form of contamination. It was the soil's contact with menstrual blood that made it 'dirty'.

While I can't imagine why Chinese constitutions would be different to other's, I accept some of the post-partum practices, eating 'hot' food for example, to be worth considering. I'd rather that than eating the placenta!

[studentyoung]

@ muyongshi

And by the way if you took one of those aforementioned Indians and let them grow up in Europe or heck even the Chinese country side they would not be able to drink the water.

That’s exactly what I told you factors like food, environment, weather, etc. can have an effect on local people.

@ roddy

Studentyoung, nobody is denying physiological differences - but I've yet to see any that make this practice a more advisable one for Chinese women than any other variety of female. Personally I think they probably all deserve a month of rest. Find me one piece of research that says 'Chinese women need to do X, Y and Z after childbirth. Other women don't.'

为什么西方人不用坐月子？

悬赏分：0 - 解决时间：2007-7-13 08:34

中国人都讲究坐月子，为什么西方人都不用坐月子？而且我们有同事定居在国外，生了两个孩子，也不坐月子？

"坐月子"是中国特有的说法,在国外,外国人不叫坐月子,叫lie in.意思也是坐月子的意思.

例如:

美国妇女产后也会在床上休养3-4周，此一时期她不用做家事，餐点也有人亲朋好友或左右邻居帮忙准备，当然这份人情以后还是要还的。

http://zhidao.baidu.com/question/30465398.html

外国人生孩子，也坐月子吗？？？

悬赏分：0 - 解决时间：2007-7-28 20:42

外国人生孩子，也坐月子吗？？？

不管西方东方，女性怀孕期体内各系统的变化是一样的，生完都要有恢复阶段，如子宫恢复需要6～8周。在子宫没有完全恢复时游泳，容易造成细菌感染或慢性盆腔炎，而且生孩子抵抗力下降，新陈代谢快，出汗容易着凉或关节痛。

但东西方人的体质差异很大，我们的饮食以植物类为主，比如中国足球上不去跟体质与营养有直接关系的。还有环境因素，西方人产后伤口暴露，然后主张你马上洗澡，他们的家内环境很干净，暴露的伤口没问题。我们的环境条件达不到那样的水平。所以我们许多做法不能完全模仿西方，我们的医学发展借鉴了他们，但中国有中国的特点，我们的保健就要适合我们中国人的体质。

http://zhidao.baidu.com/question/31816207.html?fr=qrl3

@ gougou

So is the practice of 坐月子 followed in the same way in cities as in rural parts of the country?

Indeed. In big cities like Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou, lying-in women don’t need to eat too many eggs and drink too much chicken soup. They are also taught to do some simple indoor exercises to help accelerate recovery.

Thanks!

[muyongshi]

Quote:

为什么西方人不用坐月子？

悬赏分：0 - 解决时间：2007-7-13 08:34

中国人都讲究坐月子，为什么西方人都不用坐月子？而且我们有同事定居在国外，生了两个孩子，也不坐月子？

"坐月子"是中国特有的说法,在国外,外国人不叫坐月子,叫lie in.意思也是坐月子的意思.

例如:

美国妇女产后也会在床上休养3-4周，此一时期她不用做家事，餐点也有人亲朋好友或左右邻居帮忙准备，当然这份人情以后还是要还的。

I have one thing to say to the so called "lie in" 狗屁. Never heard of it and in fact one of my best friends just had her second baby (and by the way she is a foreigner living in China so she has the same conditions as other Chinese people) and her "recovery period" was about a week long. During that week she still did many routine things just required more sleep. For the other 3 weeks of the first month she still required more sleep but was back to her normal life.

不管西方东方，女性怀孕期体内各系统的变化是一样的，生完都要有恢复阶段，如子宫恢复需要6～8周。在子宫没有完全恢复时游泳，容易造成细菌感染或慢性盆腔炎，而且生孩子抵抗力下降，新陈代谢快，出汗容易着凉或关节痛。

但东西方人的体质差异很大，我们的饮食以植物类为主，比如中国足球上不去跟体质与营养有直接关系的。还有环境因素，西方人产后伤口暴露，然后主张你马上洗澡，他们的家内环境很干净，暴露的伤口没问题。我们的环境条件达不到那样的水平。所以我们许多做法不能完全模仿西方，我们的医学发展借鉴了他们，但中国有中国的特点，我们的保健就要适合我们中国人的体质。

So basically what this is all saying is that the water supply is the main reason for not showering/swimming etc. That is only one aspect of this entire thing. and 中国有中国的特点 is not a sufficient answer to justify away all the non-scientific practices. If you told me this is a cultural practice and a way to maintain our culture I could accept it then as it is not claiming to have scientific base but as it stands there has not been scientific evidence given that is suffice to justify this ritual act.

Studentyoung I am really trying to understand but you have yet to give me one shred of actual evidence as to why this practice is necessary.

[gato]

Instead of using the word "坐月子," maybe you should discuss what exact practices -- such as bathing, showering, washing dishes -- should or should not be done after giving birth.

As already mentioned, if what "坐月子" entails differs from region to region, then it's not very productive to refer to this amorphous concept.

[muyongshi]

As already mentioned, if what "坐月子" entails differs from region to region, then it's not very productive to refer to this amorphous concept.

Quote:

So is the practice of 坐月子 followed in the same way in cities as in rural parts of the country?

Indeed. In big cities like Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou, lying-in women don’t need to eat too many eggs and drink too much chicken soup. They are also taught to do some simple indoor exercises to help accelerate recovery.

But we are being told it is the same...

[roddy]

Lying in did happen, although it was as much about resting before birth than after birth - see this already proxied Wikipedia link.

[muyongshi]

Didn't work Roddy...