Genuine TEFL training

[lilongyue]

Quick question about places that offer genuine TEFL training. I've been hearing that the place in Zhuhai isn't legit, or that at least there are doubts about it. People say the place in Beijing is the real deal, but which place are they referring to?

[roddy]

Depends what you mean by genuine. Anyone can offer useful training - what you need are guarantees that it is up to scratch, and that it will be recognized as such. For that, the nearest thing to a gold standard is the CELTA qualification - search here for a list of providers in China.

Be aware that centers can lose accreditation, accredited centers may run non-accredited courses, etc.

By Zhuhai you probably mean TEFL International. They might be fine - they do run a full month course, with teaching practice, which is key. But they're not accredited by anyone, and if you have to take their certificate to a language school somewhere looking for a CELTA or equivalent teacher, there's no guarantee it would be accepted.

[BrandeX]

The only "real" course would probably be a university degree in TEFL. Not one with a fake accrediting agency, or accredited by some dodgy unknown religious organization, but your regular "real" Uni or college that you would find in your home country. Failing that next best as mentioned is a Celta/Delta, or perhaps Trinity certification, which are well enough regarded. As far as China is concerned, typically any piece of paper is good enough (even fake, unfortunately). I have been using a cert from an online class I picked up after I came here, but no one has seemed to really care whether I had one or not. At most places here in China, it seems that: White + native speaker > anything else, in regards to qualifications.

[lilongyue]

The only "real" course would probably be a university degree in TEFL

What I was referring to was some kind of internationally recognized TEFL certificate, such as the University of Cambridge certified CELTA certificate. This school http://www.languagelink.com.cn/ seems to offer it (thanks for the link roddy). The reason I was thinking about getting one was so I could teach in Taiwan. I only have a 2 year college degree. Without a 4 years Bachelor's degree, you need some kind of TEFL certificate and an Associates Degree to teach English in Taiwan. I didn't want to waste my money on a Chinese scam, and I doubt there is much one of these bogus TEFL programs can teach me that I haven't already learned after 4 years in China.

[kdavid]

Depends what you mean by genuine.

Genuine TEFL/TESOL training/programs, I believe we can agree, can be characterized as follows:

• Provides knowledgeable and experience instructors
  
• Requires real teaching practice with real learners of English
  
• Teaching practice is observed by experienced teachers/instructors
  
• Provides feedback/constructive criticism on how to improve your teaching
  
• Teaches everything you could possibly need to know in order to succeed in the classroom (grammar, classroom management, teaching vocabulary, illustrating meaning, how to write lesson plans, practice activities, etc., etc.)
  
• Provides tips/training on how to assimilate into the host culture
  
• Is accredited by a reputable international institution and/or government body
  
• Has a strong base of testimonials and past references
  
• Gives you the confidence you need to be a successful and memorable teacher
  

And, as this post provides the opportunity for a shameless plug, I believe my school offers all of this and more : www.WillExcelTESOL.com

[lilongyue]

So teachers pay you to teach for free and afterwards get some certificate that won't be recognized by any official institution, or abroad? This sounds too much like people I knew who were suckered into to paying to be a volunteer English teacher in some crappy middle school out in the middle of nowhere (where they were kept under lock and key), promised Chinese lessons (which turned out to only be a book they were given with no instruction), told how it would be such a great cultural experience (which meant looking at streets lined with protitutes in some industrial wasteland), finally were shipped up to Beijing to gape at the Great Wall (or be gaped at while at the Great Wall), and if they were lucky would be set up a job at some other crappy middle school in the middle of nowhere making 3,000 RMB a month.

Thanks, but no thanks!

[kdavid]

lilongyue, you raise some good questions which I'll try my best to clarify below:

So teachers pay you to teach for free

Teachers pay a $200 registration fee that confirms their spot in the course. This is the only out of pocket expense they pay for the entire course.

Teachers are paid hourly during the first month of training and earn a base salary of at least 4000 RMB throughout their teaching term. Many of our sponsor schools offer more than the guaranteed base of 4000 RMB.

Also, once teachers finish their teaching term, if they choose to re-sign with their sponsor school, they will be paid at least 5600 RMB a month.

I would hardly call this working for free.

and afterwards get some certificate that won't be recognized by any official institution, or abroad

Our diploma (we issue a diploma has opposed to a certificate due to the amount of work and study that goes into the course) is accredited by the Heilongjiang Bureau of Education. Therefore, we have official government accreditation.

Most of our graduates have gone on to a) teach at other schools throughout China, B) gone abroad to teach at other schools, c) re-signed with their sponsor school. Our diploma is internationally recognized and accepted by schools around the world.

This sounds too much like people I knew who were suckered into to paying to be a volunteer English teacher in some crappy middle school out in the middle of nowhere

There was such a group in Harbin not too long ago. These "volunteers" had no affiliation with Will-Excel whatsoever.

crappy middle school out in the middle of nowhere

All of our teachers choose their sponsor school. Therefore, every teacher knows who is sponsoring their tuition and where they will be teaching before they arrive in Harbin for training.

Teachers are sent a detailed profile of their sponsor school which includes, pictures of the school, students, city, staff, management, their accommodation, a write up of the school and city, etc. Teachers are also provided with references upon request.

promised Chinese lessons (which turned out to only be a book they were given with no instruction)

All of our teachers receive at least 10 hours of Mandarin instruction with their classmates prior to the beginning of their teaching term. Once their teaching term starts, teachers receive 2 hours of private one-to-one Mandarin lessons.

Our course provides teachers with both a new copy of the New Practical Chinese Reader and Volume 1 of Pimsleur Mandarin. Teachers also attend a Mandarin study development session towards the end of their first month of training that helps them plan a course of study for their entire six-month teaching term.

told how it would be such a great cultural experience (which meant looking at streets lined with protitutes in some industrial wasteland

I do believe that living in China is a fantastic cultural experience, as do our teachers. The testimonials on our website will attest to this fact. Applicants may also request former and current teachers' emails to ask for their personal opinions.

if they were lucky would be set up a job at some other crappy middle school in the middle of nowhere making 3,000 RMB a month.

We have very strict standards for our sponsor schools. One of which is that they offer a base salary of at least 4000 RMB throughout the teaching term. This is in addition to free private accommodation, free meals, free Mandarin lessons and free transportation to classes (should the teacher have classes off-site).

Edited November 1, 2008 at 11:04 PM by kdavid

[imron]

Resign, re-sign - what a difference a hyphen makes

[opper567]

Is Oxford Seminars TEFL certificate worth while? I'm thinking of signing up for it next semester (I'm in America) so I can possibly teach during the summer.

[-葛亚辉-]

@ lilongyue

for the record, I'm taking the Will-Excel course (which I found out about through these forums, actually), and it's really nothing like you described. In fact, I'd say its better than most TESOL/TEFL courses I looked at because (1) it gives you a ton of experience teaching at all levels and (2) it's essentially free. The TESOL tuition is taken out of your paycheck in small pieces, but you don't really notice it since what we get paid is quite a bit more than what's needed to live comfortably in Harbin anyway...

also, kdavid's post was a little unclear on this; after the training period ends and teachers start working, we get 2 free hours of 1-on-1 chinese lessons PER WEEK.

[lilongyue]

Thanks for the info, kdavid. Sorry if I sounded harsh, but given the number of scams in China, it would be best to spell out how your program works more clearly. I didn't see much of what you wrote in your post on your website, you may want to include it. If it is on your website, and I didn't see it, many apologies.

For the record, testimonials on a website are essentially useless. Anyone could write anything. Even including people's email addresses is pushing it, as there is no guarantee that the person you'd end up corresponding with actually attended the course. We could start a thread about the number of tricks schools and even so-called TEFL courses have pulled, and probably fill many pages, so you can't blame me for being skeptical.

The diploma your school issues is not the same thing as an internationally recognized certificate. I'm not saying it's worthless, but it is not the same thing as an Oxford or Cambridge certified certificate. There are plenty of things issued by government bureaus in China that aren't recognized abroad (a degree is medicine, for example). There are also many kinds of programs offering certificates and training for TEFL in China (along with plenty of fakes), and most aren't worth the paper they are written on. If you really want your program to be above-board, you ought to clearly state that is not internationally recoginzed. Even the fact that some people have gone on to teach in other countries after having attended your course (according to you) doesn't mean anything, as with a four year degree you can teach English anywhere in Asia, a TEFL certificate isn't required.

While I'm not calling you a scam artist, I don't see that your program can really offer anything special to a foreigner teaching English in China. Someone with half a brain can simply do some research online, find out what decent salaries are for English teachers in China, and start out making the same amount of money per month that someone who attended your course makes, and save $200.00. The Chinese lessons you offer are nice, but it will take many months of dedicated study to really be able to put the Chinese into use on a daily basis. Your program helping teachers to find schools with a minimum salary is a definite benefit, as some people still come to China with out having done any research first. However, while I'm sure there are benefits to attending a program like the one you offer, why should I when I can attend another one that is guaranteed to be recognized everywhere in the world? What would someone like me do if I got turned down for a visa to work in Taiwan because your diploma isn't recognized? Because I only have an Associates degree and not a Bachelors degree, I need a recognized TEFL certificate to teach in Taiwan. The time and money I would have spent in your program would have been a total waste.

[kdavid]

lilongyue: Again, you have posed a number of very important questions that I'm sure soon-to-be teachers around the world are asking themselves. Once again, I'll try my best to spell out some of the differences and address these issues.

For the record, testimonials on a website are essentially useless. Anyone could write anything.

Unfortunately, this is true and there is little I can do to convince you and other prospective teachers otherwise.

One of our current goals is to upload graduation speeches and comments to our website so that prospective teachers can watch graduates' comments "live". We hope that this forthcoming feature will help ease skeptics' nerves.

The diploma your school issues is not the same thing as an internationally recognized certificate. I'm not saying it's worthless, but it is not the same thing as an Oxford or Cambridge certified certificate.

Oxford and Cambridge certificates are internationally recognized names, or brands. This is what makes them "internationally recognized".

I'd be interested in reading some research of surveys that ask different teachers/people around the world how they would define "internationally recognized". I bet most would respond along the lines of "accepted by most schools world wide". According to this definition, our diploma is internationally recognized.

as with a four year degree you can teach English anywhere in Asia, a TEFL certificate isn't required.

All reputable schools require that their teachers have received TESOL/TEFL training and been issued a certificate/diploma to prove it. Sure, many schools in Asia do not require this, but the best ones do.

Schools that do not require that their teachers have received this training are most likely desperate for teachers, and therefore probably not a good choice for employment.

I don't see that your program can really offer anything special to a foreigner teaching English in China.

In my previous post, I mentioned the following, all of which is available on our website:

• The $200 registration fee as being the only money out of pocket that teachers pay. That link also explains the sponsorship model.
  
• The government accreditation.
  
• The Mandarin learning and support
  
• The free accommodation, meals, Mandarin lessons, and transportation
  
• Our teachers also receive over 500 hours of teaching practice and monthly evaluation and feedback. A detailed list of everything that our course offers can be found here. I'm confident that you'll find a lot there, if you read it, that other schools do not offer.
  

Someone with half a brain can simply do some research online, find out what decent salaries are for English teachers in China, and start out making the same amount of money per month that someone who attended your course makes, and save $200.00.

Sure, if someone feels that they do not need any teacher training, perhaps because they have previous experience, or a strong sense of confidence, they may choose not to attend TESOL training. However, the TESOL certificate/diploma, again, is required by all schools worth working for.

The Chinese lessons you offer are nice, but it will take many months of dedicated study to really be able to put the Chinese into use on a daily basis.

Is teaching any different? Do people become great teachers over night? In my experience, though there are natural teachers, most people need to work at becoming a great teachers just as they would a great speaker of Chinese.

Short "intensive" courses such as Oxford Seminars (only 60 hours) and Cambridge ESOL (four weeks of study and only 6 hours of teaching practice) simply do not provide their "teachers" with enough experience, guidance and feedback to become effective teachers.

Our course provides over 500 hours of teaching practice and monthly evaluation and feedback throughout the course of the six month teaching term.

I need a recognized TEFL certificate to teach in Taiwan.

Our diploma is internationally recognized via our government accreditation.

I'm sure there are benefits to attending a program like the one you offer, why should I when I can attend another one that is guaranteed to be recognized everywhere in the world?

The school you're applying to may only accept Oxford and Cambridge certificates. If that's the case, then you will have to do with only 60 hours of in class instruction and minimum teaching practice.

More often than not, people that attend these programs, and schools that only accept these certificates, are more after a piece of paper than they are legitimate training with professionals who care.

lilongyue, I believe I read earlier that you already have four years of teaching experience. You are certainly experienced and almost certainly a professional teacher who takes their job seriously. You may not benefit from our training, and may just need "a piece of paper" that allows you access to places such as Taiwan.

However, there is no reason why those interested in obtaining both "a piece of paper" and superior training and benefits would not want to attend our program. "Papers" such as a degrees, certificates and diplomas are only as reliable and worthwhile as the knowledge and experience that the process in which they were obtained is.

You get out of teaching and learning what you put in to it. If you're only going to take a course for the piece of paper, then taking an Oxford or Cambridge course online is probably your best bet. Sure, you'll pay a little more and won't get much (if any) teaching experience, but in the end you'll have the paper necessary to move on.

However, if you're looking to become a memorable and experienced teacher, in addition to procuring the "paper" necessary to get the best jobs world wide, then Will-Excel TESOL is certainly your best choice.

Edited November 2, 2008 at 11:55 AM by kdavid

[lilongyue]

Kudos to kdavid for his mature and resonable responses to my posts. Wish there was more of that on forums . . .