gerri Posted November 25, 2008 at 10:21 PM Report Posted November 25, 2008 at 10:21 PM Sex is definitely an interesting issue - for the outsider to wonder why there are what kinds of differences, in particular. In the classroom, even just relationships, man-woman interaction in daily life, in different cultures, is quite a fun and awkward topic to many.... source of amusement, but not something - I don't know... - not something I'd want my students to practice by acting out (I mean, doing theater in class, e.g. of the French way of greeting with bear hug and kisses on right and left cheek...? That makes me a bit uncomfortable, too...). I'd be - and I am - very careful not so much because of concern for "sensitive" issues (in a generalized, "culture"-sense), but because of concern over "sensitive" issues to sensitive students: I'd not want to be asked about my dates in a class (let alone have to talk about sex) even though, speaking from cultural background, it shouldn't make me feel all too uncomfortable, I've noticed that it's not a topic for the classroom for (most of) my students, so I don't think it's something I need to be doing. Reading some love poetry, maybe... and remember how that sometimes goes in "Western" high school?! Quote
SeekerOfPeace Posted November 26, 2008 at 02:15 AM Author Report Posted November 26, 2008 at 02:15 AM They most likely don't discuss homosexuality and FLG with their physics professor, so they might not expect it from a language teacher either. Yes, that quite true. I’m not sure comparing a physics class with an oral English class is appropriate comparison however. The goal in both classes is very different. That’s in my opinion at least. In oral classes the objective is to get students to participate, to talk. A physics class is more passive with a teacher giving a lecture and the students listening and asking questions if necessary. There would be no point for a physics teacher to bring up homosexual marriage as getting the students to talk in English about this topics is not the purpose of a class about physics. But I get your point, some students probably thought talking about contraception in class wasn’t appropriate. Quote
Senzhi Posted November 26, 2008 at 05:52 PM Report Posted November 26, 2008 at 05:52 PM Well ... I'm sorry folks, but I firmly don't agree! Regardless of subject, I believe teachers should believe in the future of students. The principle: they are our future!!! And that can not only be related to the subject we teach ... Maybe only worth another 5 mao ... Quote
renzhe Posted November 26, 2008 at 06:24 PM Report Posted November 26, 2008 at 06:24 PM Each teacher, however, does have his or her area of expertise. I don't doubt that my physics professor has best intentions for my future, but I'd feel rather odd if he started explaining contraception to me in the middle of a physics lecture. Perhaps I wouldn't be as uncomfortable about it as the Chinese students, but I'd certainly consider it strange. I've never had a language teacher talk about contraceptives, and I don't find this to be a bad thing. SeekerOfPeace is correct in that language teaching also has a cultural component, as you cannot learn a language without at least partly understanding the cultural background of the countries where it is spoken, and that is fine. But even then, there is a point where you are no longer the expert. I have sympathy for the cause, and encouraging students to be open-minded and forward thinking, etc. I just feel (from my humble experience) that the best way not to get listened to is to proselytise. And perhaps the least effective way to proselytise is to go to a different country and then teach people that they are brainwashed. I agree with the people who suggested that the best way to affect people (and do this in a "safe" way) is to encourage free thinking in general, and display the tolerance and open-mindedness that you are trying to pass on in your person, and hope that a few of the students might end up seeing you as a bit of a role model and change their opinions slightly for the better. I think that attempting to discuss (and especially successfully change) people's firmly held beliefs, you first need to build a certain amount of trust, and maybe this is not always automatically present in a student-language teacher relationship. Quote
rob07 Posted November 26, 2008 at 09:33 PM Report Posted November 26, 2008 at 09:33 PM Not that I am saying it is necessarily a bad idea, but Seeker of Peace, if you really are going to try to change student's minds about FLG and homosexuality etc in your English class, consider changing your user name to something else. Quote
Senzhi Posted November 27, 2008 at 06:01 PM Report Posted November 27, 2008 at 06:01 PM Renzhe, I agree with your latest post ... that's my opinion. I'm just tired/lazy to explain it as well as you do (especially at this time of day). One exception: you first need to build a certain amount of trust, and maybe this is not always automatically present in a student-language teacher relationship. I do think trust is key, but I can't determine trust on certain kinds of relationships. In fact, out of my own experiences, I've made trusty relationships with the most weirdest, strangest, kindest (and whaterver way you can call it) of people. And each time, my decision of trust came out of a different way. As an add for a famous sport brand says: impossible is nothing. I do indeed believe it to be nothing ... it's just the way how we try to do it. Quote
SeekerOfPeace Posted November 28, 2008 at 01:01 AM Author Report Posted November 28, 2008 at 01:01 AM @Renzhe: Dear Renzhe, I have sympathy for the cause, and encouraging students to be open-minded and forward thinking, etc. I just feel (from my humble experience) that the best way not to get listened to is to proselytise. And perhaps the least effective way to proselytise is to go to a different country and then teach people that they are brainwashed. I agree with the people who suggested that the best way to affect people (and do this in a "safe" way) is to encourage free thinking in general, and display the tolerance and open-mindedness that you are trying to pass on in your person, and hope that a few of the students might end up seeing you as a bit of a role model and change their opinions slightly for the better. I completely agree with that. I think going into the classroom and playing the preacher will most likely lead to being ignored. Let me give you an example: When I was in uni I had a class about feminism. The teacher never preached us but rather gave us different articles to read, just so we wouldn’t be so ignorant about one topic or another. Well, it broadened my mind quite a lot, especially as far as women are concerned. And perhaps the least effective way to proselytise is to go to a different country and then teach people that they are brainwashed. I see your point. If you walked up to the students and start confronting them about their beliefs on the spot, the reception might be rather cold and ineffective. But that’s just one way to do things. I think sometimes it might be productive to explore different ways to achieve a goal rather than dismiss the goal itself. I think it’s all about letting the students make their own decisions based on some information rather than some hearsays.. One student was saying to the other students how popular homosexuality was in Canada. Now, I’ve lived in Canada all my life and never was under the impression that homosexuality was more popular than in any other countries. To some extent, I don’t think it’s about proselytising but rather to have students have an informed opinion. If after getting some “real” information about homosexuality they still think it’s wrong for homosexuals to marry, fine. At least they’re making up their mind based on some information rather than some popular drivel. I do think that a lot of students would change their mind and adopt a different perspective if they were more informed about certain subjects (I mean, who doesn’t?). I think that attempting to discuss (and especially successfully change) people's firmly held beliefs, you first need to build a certain amount of trust, and maybe this is not always automatically present in a student-language teacher relationship. Yes, I do think trust is involved. But not as much as one might imagine. But let me say this again, most (if not all) of the actual discussion takes place among the students. There are plenty of students with convincing ideas as to why homosexuals should have the right to marry. If you give students articles about some topic, you are just passing on information rather than spoon feeding them your own ideas. I am tempted to believe that a minimal amount of trust is required to proceed in such a way. I hypothesise that students would be more receptive to other students opinion than to some foreign teacher. I see my role in those kind of debates as giving them information letting them debate some topics based on that information. Passionate debate is also a goldmine as far practicing and making mistakes are concerned. Not that I am saying it is necessarily a bad idea, but Seeker of Peace, if you really are going to try to change student's minds about FLG and homosexuality etc in your English class, consider changing your user name to something else. Hello rob07, Haha ! Yes. I’ve dropped the idea of discussing about FLG. Homosexuality (and their rights) is discussed among my students quite openly and without conflict. Again, I don’t aim to change their minds, my goal is to encourage and develop their critical thinking. My aim is rather for them to be informed about a subject and then decide to change their mind or not about it. Although to be blunt, I do think some students would benefit from showing a bit more acceptance towards homosexuals, as I don’t see what harm that would do. This is probably the only topic in which I might let my subjectivity get in the way, as after thinking about it, I see no harm in getting the students to accept them. I can’t stress enough that the goal is not to force-feed my opinions, beliefs to them (except perhaps, about homosexuality (half-joking here)). I do think trust is key, but I can't determine trust on certain kinds of relationships. In fact, out of my own experiences, I've made trusty relationships with the most weirdest, strangest, kindest (and whaterver way you can call it) of people. And each time, my decision of trust came out of a different way. What do you mean exactly? I would like to read more about your idea but I’m not sure I understand what you’re trying to say here. Do you mean that trust varies depending on what kind of students you have? Yours, SoP. Quote
Senzhi Posted November 28, 2008 at 05:21 PM Report Posted November 28, 2008 at 05:21 PM Do you mean that trust varies depending on what kind of students you have? I believe trust depends on many things, one of which is cultural, but not only that. Think of many ingredients mixed together resulting in a delicious meal called "trust". But that doesn't mean that each ingredient is sufficient enough to create a delicous meal, no matter how much effort you put in it. So, it doesn't only depend on the kind of students, but more on the personality of each person we meet as well as the building of relationships with them. But one thing I don't believe is that trust depends solely on cultural, social nor political opinions. Else I'd have no trustworthy friends here. And I do. Happily so. And no, many times they do not share my opinion. Quote
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