I want to be a Buddhist Monk in China!

[HashiriKata]

Is there any member here who is a monk in China? For some unknown reason, I suddenly feel very attracted towards the idea of being a monk at some remote Buddhist temple in China. What do the monks normally do in a Chinese temple? Are foreigners allowed to be a monk in China? This is not a short-term thing, so can we naturalise or do we still need a visa for this?

Any light anyone can shed on this will be much appreciated.

Cheers,

[Meng Lelan]

The only monks I know are the ones I train with in Houston - Shaolin monks. They enter the Shaolin temple usually age 11 and I've heard of an American guy who joined a Shaolin temple to actually pray, learn, and train in gongfu there. Maybe if your city has a Shaolin gongfu school that has a former Shaolin monk as the shifu, you can inquire.

[studentyoung]

For some unknown reason, I suddenly feel very attracted towards the idea of being a monk at some remote Buddhist temple in China.

I see.

What do the monks normally do in a Chinese temple?

Usually, they get up at 4:00 am per day and read the Buddhist classics as their “morning class早课”. At 6:00, they can have their breakfast, usually some gruel and some vegetable. And then, they are arranged to do some job in the temple, cleaning, cocking, planting or things like that. And they have their salary monthly too. At 12:00, they will have their lunch and then have a rest. At 2:00 pm, they will read the Buddhist classics again, as their “afternoon class 午课”. They will have a rest at 6:00pm. At7:00 to 9:mm, they will have their "night class晚课". Sorry, I forget to tell you that a monk is allowed to have two meals a day.

Are foreigners allowed to be a monk in China?

Hmm. I don’t know, but I see that even native Chinese people aren’t allowed to be a monk or nun very easily. At first, they must graduate from a Buddhism college to prove their knowledge on Buddhism after 4-5 years study on Buddhism classics. Before they study in a Buddhism college, they will be tested and questioned thoroughly by senior mocks, such as being asked why you want to be a monk, how many Buddhist classics you have read, how well you can understand Buddhism, how about the conditions in your family, how is your current financial conditions, and so on. With such questions, they want to make sure that you want to be a monk just because you’re interested in Buddhism and you have some Buddhist wisdom root （慧根） too. They also want to exclude those who want to be a monk just because they get hurt by love or have financial problems. In a word, Buddhism is not an excuse for people to avoid social responsibility.

Ah, of course, you can donate a huge sum of momey to a temple, so that you can live there as long as you like.

This is not a short-term thing, so can we naturalise or do we still need a visa for this?

May I test your Buddhist wisdom at first? Below is a Buddhist poem, can you explain it in English to show your understanding in Buddhism?

菩提本非树，

明镜亦非台。

本是无一物，

何处惹尘埃。

By the way, can you tell me how well do you understand 《般若波罗密多心经》,《法华经》,《华楞经》、《药师经》, etc? Have you written any papers?

Cheers!

Edited November 19, 2008 at 02:29 AM by studentyoung

[L-F-J]

i take it you are already a practicing buddhist? that would be the first logical step.

if you're really serious, perhaps a better message board to ask about on is e-sangha: http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?

several monastics of various traditions are members there. one of which is an american who was ordained as a nun in the chinese pureland tradition in taiwan, now living in the u.s.- ven. shi hongyang. another is a western chan monk who resides in hk- ven. shi huifeng.

best of luck to you.

[Meng Lelan]

Wow, studentyoung knows a lot of Buddhism....I am impressed.

[L-F-J]

May I test your Buddhist wisdom at first? Below is a Buddhist poem, can you explain it in English to show your understanding in Buddhism?

菩提本非树，

明镜亦非台。

本是无一物，

何处惹尘埃。

what purpose does this sort of questioning serve, especially in such a situation? in what position are you to test, and how will you know if he is "right" or "wrong"?

in any case, it will only be according to your understanding, your logic, that judges another's understanding, or whether or not they find the "right answer", based on what you've learned and rationalized as the "true understanding".

the rational mind cannot be depended on like that.

rather than "test his buddhist wisdom" on a message board, why dont we just link him to useful resources to explore his interest and see if its right for him first of all: http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?

[studentyoung]

what purpose does this sort of questioning serve, especially in such a situation? in what position are you to test, and how will you know if he is "right" or "wrong"?

本是无一物，

何处惹尘埃。

Cheers!

[HashiriKata]

Thank you all for your reponses!

From what has been said, it doesn't look at all easy to be a monk in China,

Usually, they get up at 4:00 am..(...) 7:00 to 9:mm, they will have their "night class晚课".

That seems a busy daily schedule! I did have high hope of having a lot of free time for my Chinese!

even native Chinese people aren’t allowed to be a monk or nun very easily. At first, they must graduate from a Buddhism college to prove their knowledge on Buddhism after 4-5 years study on Buddhism classics.

Not very easy indeed! It seems we're hitting on the same "chicken and egg" problem here.

i take it you are already a practicing buddhist?

No, I'm not, and neither I am one of "those who want to be a monk just because they get hurt by love or have financial problems. In a word, Buddhism is not an excuse for people to avoid social responsibility." As I said in the opening post, I still don't know the reason why I fancied the idea of being a monk. Maybe because of something vaguely romantic: a remote place untroubled by all the modern conveniences..., and the alluring prospect of being able to learn Chinese in its natural environment, of course!

May I test your Buddhist wisdom at first? Below is a Buddhist poem, can you explain it in English to show your understanding in Buddhism?

菩提本非树，

明镜亦非台。

本是无一物，

何处惹尘埃。

This is more like a test in Advanced Chinese to me, studentyoung! And that is not very fair!

Well, it does seem very difficult, if not impossible for a foreigner, to be a monk in China, except in Shaolin where I've heard that it's more like you're entering a school than a temple, but I'll have a read at the forum that L-F-J referred to to find out a bit more on this. Meanwhile, further contributions will still be much welcome and appreciated.

[chaxiu]

Hey,

There are a lot of monasteries/temples in Taiwan.

Have a look at the Chung Tai Chan Monestary website. I think you can stay there and they have classes etc.(sorry, it's the only one I know that has a website)

www.ctworld.org.tw/index.htm

Otherwise, you might try Nepal.

Chaxiu

Edited November 20, 2008 at 05:38 AM by chaxiu

[rob07]

May I test your Buddhist wisdom at first? Below is a Buddhist poem, can you explain it in English to show your understanding in Buddhism?

菩提本非树，

明镜亦非台。

本是无一物，

何处惹尘埃。

I'll have a go.

This poem was written by 惠能, who became the sixth patriarch of a school of Buddhism as a result of writing it. When he was seeking a teacher, he took a job working in the kitchens of the fifth patriarch. The fifth patriarch called for his disciples to each write a Buddhist poem, and a senior disciple came up with the following:

身是菩提树，心如明镜台，时时勤拂拭，莫使有尘埃

This broadly means:

The body is a Bodhi tree (I understand this is actually a specific kind of tree), the mind is like a bright mirror on a stand, always take care to keep your body and mind clean, don't let any dust settle on and pollute your mind or body.

From the kitchen 惠能 called out, saying that the poem was not bad but somewhat missed the point. He then recited his own poem:

菩提本非树， 明镜亦非台，本来无一物，何处染尘埃？

This broadly means:

Bodhi is not a tree, the "bright mirror" your mind should be like is not something that can be placed on a stand. Since basically nothing exists, how can it be polluted by dust?

Upon hearing 惠能's poem, the fifth patriarch immediately handed over his buddhist robes and begging bowl to him, and 惠能 thus became the sixth patriarch.

[gerri]

Yep, the Bodhi tree is a particular kind of tree, the species of tree under which Gautama Buddha found his enlightenment, botanically Ficus religiosa, and this post of mine totally misses the point. But if the true reality is shunyata (emptiness - don't know the Chinese for that - yet, hopefully), then there is no point to make or miss.

[liuzhou]

Is the "cocking" compulsory?

[Lu]

I don't know about China, but something like this seems to be possible in Taiwan. One xuejie of mine spent some months in a monastery, not sure what she did but there was a lot of meditating involved, I think. A former co-worker told me how he once toyed with the idea, spent some time in a monastery, and in the end realized it wasn't for him and went back to being a journalist. If I were you I'd try and find some information about Taiwan, you can go and try it out for some months.

[L-F-J]

惠能

*慧能

[L-F-J]

i take it you are already a practicing buddhist?

No' date=' I'm not[/quote']

perhaps the first step would be to learn a little bit. becoming a monk is "leaving home", giving up the secular world. it is completely different and a very serious commitment you make and it shouldnt be taken lightly.

so, first of all, make sure the religion is right for you before you consider whether or not monasticism is right for you!

perhaps try here for a good start: www.buddhanet.net - buddhism in a nutshell, five minute introduction, etc..

Maybe because of something vaguely romantic: a remote place untroubled by all the modern conveniences..., and the alluring prospect of being able to learn Chinese in its natural environment, of course!

learning chinese would be doable of course. both western monk and nun ven. huifeng and ven. hongyang on the message board i linked you to are quite fluent in modern chinese, as well as classical. they do translation work transcribing all the ancient chinese sutras into english. plenty of time for that.

however, "a remote place untroubled by all the modern conveniences" will be a tough find. not that it isnt possible, but most chinese temples are not what you'd imagine. you really have to look.

May I test your Buddhist wisdom at first? Below is a Buddhist poem' date=' can you explain it in English to show your understanding in Buddhism?

菩提本非树，

明镜亦非台。

本是无一物，

何处惹尘埃。[/quote']

This is more like a test in Advanced Chinese to me, studentyoung! And that is not very fair!

its also taken out of context and is an irresponsible "test". disregard.

Well, it does seem very difficult, if not impossible for a foreigner, to be a monk in China, except in Shaolin where I've heard that it's more like you're entering a school than a temple,

difficult, indeed. even in shaolin temple. there are many foreigners who have gone there and taken laymen vows. they become secular disciples and not actually "monks". at this time there are no foreigners living in shaolin temple.

shaolin is not a school, not a martial arts school. it is first and foremost a buddhist monastery. the practice of martial arts there is for the development of chan meditation in action.

in the nearby city, dengfeng, there are many many shaolin wushu schools. most dont have anything to do with practicing buddhism. but dont confuse this with shaolin temple. behind all the tourists who like to visit, it is a true buddhist monastery with practicing monks.

[renzhe]

I know you can do this in Korea.

For a price, of course.

[rob07]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob07

惠能

*慧能

Do you have a source for that? The name is clearly given as 惠能 when the story is told in the 红楼梦, ie:

宝钗道："实在这方悟彻。当日南宗六祖惠能，初寻

师至韶州，闻五祖弘忍在黄梅，他便充役火头僧。五祖欲求法嗣，令徒弟诸僧各出

一偈。 上座神秀说道：‘身是菩提树，心如明镜台，时时勤拂拭，莫使有尘埃。'

彼时惠能在厨房碓米，听了这偈，说道：‘美则美矣，了则未了。'因自念一偈曰：

‘菩提本非树， 明镜亦非台，本来无一物，何处染尘埃？"五祖便将衣钵传他。

[L-F-J]

both characters are used but 慧 from 智慧, which is central to chan buddhism, is more common.

it is what i've seen most when studying the "platform sutra of the sixth patriarch" (六祖坦经) in which his life, including this stanza contest, is recorded.

[HashiriKata]

perhaps the first step would be to learn a little bit. becoming a monk is "leaving home", giving up the secular world. it is completely different and a very serious commitment you make and it shouldnt be taken lightly.

You're right, L-F-J, I should find out more about Buddhism first. Superficially, I'm very attactracted to it as a system of thoughts, without much knowledge of it as a religion. By the way, you seem to know quite a bit about it. Are practising it in some way? If you are, what's attracted you to Buddhism?

I know you can do this in Korea.

For a price' date=' of course. [/quote']How can Buddhism and money be together in one sentence? Not Korea really. A big part of the attraction in China for me is the Chinese language.

[L-F-J]

Are [you] practising it in some way? If you are, what's attracted you to Buddhism?

yes, i follow caodong chan (曹洞禅) tradition of chinese buddhism, the equivalent of "soto zen" in japan, as the founder of chan in china, bodhidharma, describes as:

教外别传，不立文字，直指人心，见性成佛。

"a special transmission outside the scriptures, not dependant on words or letters. directly pointing to the heart, see one's nature and become a buddha."

as i've discovered, the key to true happiness is simplicity. i've found that through chan, as my master says is 在我们的生活当中无处不在. it can be as simple as sitting-chan, walking-chan, eating-chan, dishwashing-chan, wushu-chan, studying-chinese-chan, etc..

hope you find what you're looking for.