I want to be a Buddhist Monk in China!

[L-F-J]

A big part of the attraction in China for me is the Chinese language.

that would be a big part. i make yearly trips for several months to study with my chan master in china, who speaks only a few words of english. (monk, water, wolf..) so it is immensely important for me to speak chinese and understand a henan accent. great motivation.

[lilongyue]

I just finished about a month in Bailin Chan Temple (柏林禅寺), which was the temple founded by Chan Master Zhaozhou (赵州禅师), best known for the "Wu/Mu" gong'an/koan, as well as the "Have a cup of tea" gong'an/koan. The website is http://www.bailinsi.net/. The abbot is Minghai Fashi (明海法师), who is the disciple of Jinghui Laoheshang (净慧老和尚), who was the disciple of Empty Cloud (虚云老和尚). Jinghui Laoheshang is the abbot of the Fourth Partriarch's Temple (第四祖寺 - http://www.hmszs.org/), along with many others. If you want to stay in a good temple, where you can find dedicated monks, go to one of the temples associated with these monks. Both Minghai and Jinghu are amazing monks. In their temples you can find printed versions of teaching by Jinghui, and I have some electronic versions of Minghai's teachings. I am translating teachings of these two monks into English. Another temple that I've heard is good, but is VERY meditation oriented (meaning not a place to study Chinese), is Yunjushan Zhenru Chansi (云居山真如禅寺). This was the last temple that Empty Cloud lived in before dying.

What studentyoung wrote about the daily schedule of temples in China is mostly correct. However, most Chinese monks eat three times a day, and you don't necessarily need to have graduated from a Buddhist studies program to ordain. Finding a temple with a Foxueyuan (佛学院) would be good for your Chinese. You will need to be able to understand classical Chinese to get deep into Buddhist studies, as well as be able to recognize traditional characters, too. I don't know if they allow laymen into the Foxueyuan.

I would gladly share with you any information I have about Buddhism in China, or living in Buddhist temples. Feel free to PM me. I have stayed in many Buddhist temples in other countries and Buddhist traditions, and so have some experience.

if you're really serious, perhaps a better message board to ask about on is e-sangha: http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?

Thanks for the link, L-F-J. I think I'm going to register with that website.

Originally Posted by rob07

惠能

*慧能

Do you have a source for that? The name is clearly given as 惠能 when the story is told in the 红楼梦

Wikipedia lists both names, but I've only ever seen 慧能. The 红楼梦 is a novel, not a proper Buddhist text, so I wouldn't rely on it as a defintive source for Buddhist terms, etc., but in this case it doesn't seem to be wrong.

[liuzhou]

How can Buddhism and money be together in one sentence?

The most aggressive beggars I've met in China have been Buddhist monks.

[HashiriKata]

The most aggressive beggars I've met in China have been Buddhist monks.

I'm sure there are no such things as Buddhist monk beggars, although things can sometimes look that way to some uninitiated laowai .

[Luobot]

I'm sure there are no such things as Buddhist monk beggars, although things can sometimes look that way to some uninitiated laowai

How does this look?

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Japanese_buddhist_monk_by_Arashiyama.JPG

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Komuso_Buddhist_monk_beggar_Kita-kamakura.jpg

[HashiriKata]

How does this look?

Impressive!

(Seriously, that's exactly what I meant: our understanding of things can be shallow and our use of words can be indiscriminate (But it's all forgivable! ))

[jeffofarabia]

Maybe it would be easier to go to Thailand. There are opportunities there and some English as well. Good luck.

[Lu]

HK, I suggest Taiwan, I know it's possible there. (I'm repeating myself, but it seemed you missed my earlier post.) They have Chinese language there.

[HashiriKata]

Thank you Lu, I didn't miss your earlier post, but was just quietly contemplating the possibility. If it's Taiwan, I'll have the additional pleasure of seeking out some old friends.

[lilongyue]

Quote:

How can Buddhism and money be together in one sentence?

The most aggressive beggars I've met in China have been Buddhist monks.

As with everything, there are people who will dress up as monks and try to sell you trinkets, or just beg for money. Chinese temples take care of the needs of monks, providing them with food and shelter, and lay people also offer support in different ways. Real monks in China have no need to beg. Traditionally, Buddhist monks begged for their food, but never money. In countries like Thailand, Burma and Sri Lanka they still carry on this tradition of going out in the morning and begging for food, but it never caught on in China. Don't give anything to monks who beg or try to sell things to you in China, they are fake. This is why I was telling you about Ven. Jinghui and Ven. Minghai, and the temples associated with them. There are good temples, and bad temples; good monks and bad monks. One of the most important decisions, if you are thinking about ordaining, is where to ordain, and under whom. You need to find a proper teacher, who actually knows what he is talking about, and make sure that the discipline in the temple is up to snuff.

I spent several months in temples in Thailand, and have also visited Taiwan. There are a lot of Foxueyuan in Taiwan, so if you like to study, you can look for temples who follow the tradition of Ven. Yinshun (印顺法师), here's the wikipedia page about him: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yin_Shun. Taiwan would be a good choice, as the standard of living in Taiwan is much higher than in the Mainland, and Buddhism is alive and well there. A lot of foreign monks live in Taiwan, and so you wouldn't be treated like a total freak by the locals in Taiwan (unlike in the Mainland where people will flip at seeing a foreign monk).

But anyway, we are getting ahead of ourselves. The first step in becoming a Buddhist is to find a good teacher, and after some study to Take Refuge in the Three Jewels, meaning the Buddha, Dharma and the Sangha. After you have done this, you can take the 5 Precepts of a layman (no killing, stealing, lying, committing adultery and drinking alcohol), and then spend time in a temple and see what the lifestyle is like. The idea of being a monk is very romantic, but the actual day to day life of a monk isn't that romantic at all. You have to get up before the sun rises every day, keep a lot of vows, there are a lot of things you can't do as a monk, as well as things that aren't expressly forbidden by the Vinaya (the vows or precepts of a monk), but are culturally not accepted as appropriate behavior for a monk.

Ven. Jinghui and Minghai work very hard at educating the laity, and they regular hold seven day meditation retreats (called 禅七 in Chinese). Bailin Temple and the Fourth Patriarch's temple are going to be holding 5 禅七 soon, which means 35 days of solid meditation. I attended a Chanqi a while ago, and we did 10 hours of meditation a day. It was OK for me because I have done a lot of retreats, but setting up a regular meditation practice for yourself is also an important step in becoming a Buddhist. Before having established a regular meditation practice, attempting 10 hours of meditation a day is not easy, and I wouldn't even recommend it. If you are serious about becoming a Buddhist, and are interested in meditation, then another fact you should know about Buddhism is that most monks in the world don't really practice meditation. One generally has to look to find temples where real practice is going on, and this also requires finding a teacher who himself has practiced, and therefore knows how to instruct others in meditation. You also need to know which type of Buddhist practice you want to engage in, Chan or Pure Land, for example. Most Westerners are not interested in Pure Land, and are more interested in Chan (Zen) style meditation. The nice thing about China is that even inside of a Chan temple you can find people doing different styles of meditation, i.e. samatha-vipassan, gong'an/koan, huatou, etc. But like I said, you need someone who himself is experienced in these meditation practices, and then he can instruct you. This is why I recommend Ven. Jinghui and Minhai, or temples associated with them. If you want to go to Southern China, you could also go to Yunmen Temple. The abbot there is Ven. Foyuan, who was also the disciple of Empty Cloud. You will be able to receive proper training in meditation practice there, as well.

Anyway, where are you now, HashiriKata? What is your current level of Chinese? Having a low level of Chinese would make life in a temple a bit more difficult. You also need to know that Buddhism has a lot of specialized terminology, and as the average Chinese doesn't know anything about Buddhism, they won't be able to help explain the meaning of these words at all. So, if you're serious you'll need a Buddhist dictionary, as regular dictionaries won't have Buddhist terminology in them, or the definitions will just be wrong. Getting around inside the Buddhist world in China is similar to getting around in other circles in China, meaning it's very beneficial to know someone on the inside. Randomly picking a temple in China might turn into a very disappointing experience for you, so as I said earlier, you can PM me, and we can talk more.

[imron]

so as I said earlier, you can PM me, and we can talk more.

Or if it's nothing too personal, you could just keep posting here and let everyone (including future readers looking for the answer to the same question) share in your knowledge

[liuzhou]

I'm sure there are no such things as Buddhist monk beggars, although things can sometimes look that way to some uninitiated laowai

I can assure you that there are. And they are not all fake.

[L-F-J]

i saw many times in chinese news of people masquerading as buddhist monks to get over on people for money in some way or another. which doesnt exactly make sense, because chinese mahayana buddhism generally doesnt practice alms collection. thats still practiced in theravada countries like thailand, but thats vastly different from being a street beggar. if a chinese buddhist monk is "aggressively" begging on the street, i would be highly suspicious of the legitimacy of their monasticism.

[HashiriKata]

I can assure you that there are. And they are not all fake.

That is true, they are not all fake.

But leaving the fake ones aside, I wouldn't use the word "beggars" to refer to those monks who do collect alms on the street as part of their religious belief/ practice. Even a layman as I am, and also as mentioned by L-F-J above, I understand that their are different sects within Buddhism, and among them some sects would denounce all form of possession and have to rely on alms. There may be more profound reasons behind this practice, and I wouldn't consider it "begging" (I think the right words associated with this are 头陀,募化,布施, etc). Even within the European religious traditions, have you heard of "Mendicant Orders", "Mendicant Friars"? They practise something fairly similar to what we're talking about here.

Thank you lilongyue for your offer of help in this. I certainly will get in touch if I've got some concrete questions and require help. I'm only at the stage of "sounding out" the idea at the moment, prompted mainly by some perhaps vague, romantic expectations. I'm in the UK, with a "good command of Chinese", which is still yet to be tested in real life

[L-F-J]

yes, 募化 and 讨饭 may be a little different...

anyhow, many mahayana buddhist temples are purposely located in the mountains or elsewhere away from the cities. that way the monastics can do their own farming and not be reliant on the laity, allowing them to focus on their spiritual practice.

theravada temples are nearer or within the cities so that they can make alms rounds. they form single file lines and go from house to house where laity are ready and willing to offer alms to them. it gives the monastics the opportunity to practice gratitude and interdependence, while it gives the laity the chance for wholesome karma of supporting the spiritual life and practice of the monastics. in modern places or in the west, alms is still practiced, but just as a potluck where laity bring foods to offer the monks at their meditation centers or wherever. still, same idea.

not sure where the lone monk begging on the street came from, especially a chinese mahayana monk.

[Luobot]

Actually, it’s no big deal if Buddhist Monks do a little begging or raise some angel capital or whatever you want to call it. Now that I’ve taken a closer look at the two photos that I linked to in my previous post, I agree with HashiriKata that things are not what they seem. Upon closer inspection, I now recognize one of those beggars as being a Wall Street Investment Banker and the other one is a Detroit Auto Exec. These are, indeed, the most aggressive beggars in the US. They’ve offered every excuse imaginable to collect public alms, but passing themselves off as Buddhist Monks is a sly one, indeed.

(Seriously, my best wishes, HashiriKata, if you decide to become a Buddhist Monk.)

[L-F-J]

How does this look?

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Im...Arashiyama.JPG

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Im...a-kamakura.jpg

looks like japanese monks.

and i dont see them leaching onto people pushing their bowls in their stomachs asking for money.

besides, depending on the tradition, monastics are not allowed to handle cash. their alms bowls are for food. devout laity supporting them by offering alms is part of the tradition, it goes both ways.

its not a common beggar.

Edited November 22, 2008 at 09:07 PM by L-F-J

[HashiriKata]

its not a common beggar.

Exactly! I don't expect to see anything more dignified than those monks in the photos Luobot linked to. They're 乞士, not 乞丐.

[Javer Chen]

its not a common beggar.

Exactly! I don't expect to see anything more dignified than those monks in the photos Luobot linked to. They're 乞士, not 乞丐.

Come on, HAS. Being beggar(乞丐) is also a wonderful career. the biggest gang is 丐帮 in China. and there are many big names in this gang's history like 萧峰and 洪七公. haha

[Sinealba]

Has anyone heard of 广东尼众佛学院 in 陆丰市, Guangdong? Do you know if they hold 禅七 there?

I might go to Huizhou City, Guangdong province, for work in the coming two years, and I'd be relieved to know I can have some connection with a real-life sanga while I'm there (as opposed to keeping touch via e-mail and the like, which is off course possible), that wouldn't be too far away physically from where I live.

When I lived in China last time I went to Bailin Temple for a retreat in early January, but Hebei is a loooong way from Guangdong.

I'd be greatful for any advice! Thank you in advance