Kungfu Question: Trying to properly identify an art

[Hero Doug]

I have a friend who learnt Kungfu a while back. I asked him which style he learnt and he told me that it was Sandao. So I took a look on Wikipedia and couldn't find it. The nearest I found was sanshou, sanda, or san soo, which all appear to the the same art.

My question is did he get the name wrong? Was he actually learning sanda?

From what he told me about the art, and what I've read it seems possible. He said that its more about doing what it takes to win since in a fight there are no rules, and it's a dangerous situation, so you want to end it as quickly as possible. Sanda seems to have similar principals.

Can anyone shed some light on this. We're in the Hunan area if that helps.

Thanks.

[liuzhou]

Every time I watch these ridiculous Kung Fu movies, which I only do when forced to, I just think:

OK. Some guy is threatening you. He's standing in front of you in an intimidating manner. He is waving his arms about in the air. And his legs. He's going to beat you senseless (while flying up and down)

This part is simple. Take out your gun and shoot the idiot between the eyes. Works every time.

You don't have to buy hand crafted Japanese swords made by certified eunuchs. And despite popular opinion, studying Kung Fu will never give you the ability to fly (unless you have a movie company paying for all the technical effects and stuntsmen.)

Come on! Tom and Jerry is more realisitic.

[Hero Doug]

I'm going to assume you have fighting experience to back up this claim?

You of all people, after living in China for however long you've been here should know that entertainment movies are not the place to learn anything, otherwise everyone in China would be kung fu fighting.

Anyways, look at Cung Le's biography. You'll see that one of his interests is Sanshou (sanda, san soo).

Go to youtube, check out some sanda/sanshou videos to see what the technique is like. Then go here and look at some of his videos. You'll see he is in fact using sanshou.

and

are both decent.

[renzhe]

There's no way to know, but I've never heard of "Sandao", and Sanda is relatively common, so I assume it's that.

Sanda is not so much a style as a set of rules for full-contact fighting, which is standardised as a part of Wushu (the standardised art). Similar to kickboxing, but includes sweeps and throws.

[Meng Lelan]

Hero Doug, I train in wushu and Shaolin gongfu here in Texas and I think your friend (is he a Hunan native?) is saying sanda, not sandao. Sanda is sparring.

By the way there's a movie that came out called Wushu which is about some high schoolers in China at a special wushu school and the main character is training in sanda. I haven't seen it yet.

[liuzhou]

You of all people, after living in China for however long you've been here should know that entertainment movies are not the place to learn anything, otherwise everyone in China would be kung fu fighting.

But, virtually the only place they are doing it is in movies. and computer games.

[Meng Lelan]

But, virtually the only place they are doing it is in movies. and computer games.

And in real life thousands of Chinese and non-Chinese practice gongfu and wushu in special sport schools, competitions, cultural performances, etc. So no, gongfu is not limited to just movies in computer games. But I have to say those movies have made gongfu very popular outside of China as I can see from how enrollment in gongfu classes is growing here in Texas.

[liuzhou]

And in real life thousands of Chinese and non-Chinese practice gongfu and wushu in special sport schools, competitions, cultural performances, etc.

In a country of 1.4 billion people, "thousands" is negligible.

And, even among these thousands, as you mention, is it for "performance" or for "competitions" (judged as performances).

The number of people in China who take Kungfu seriously is tiny. They are all too busy making sure they have the lastest type of cell phone.

[renzhe]

The concept of gongfu is not clearly defined, but if you count Taijiquan and Qigong, then the number is far from negligible.

The fact that people in the West often have a very warped idea of what it is all about is a whole different discussion.

[liuzhou]

but if you count Taijiquan and Qigong, then the number is far from negligible.

I'm not sure that I would count them, but even then, most people, an ageing population, only pay it lip service.

I'd still say negligible.

Edited November 20, 2008 at 01:57 PM by liuzhou

[imron]

Taijiquan yes, although only a small proportion of those who practice achieve any level of martial proficiency with it. Qigong no - at least not in the sense of gongfu as a martial art, although certain aspects of Qigong can be incorporated into martial arts, Qigong itself isn't a martial art.

Anyway, people might not be fighting hand-to-hand against each other that much anymore, but there are still plenty of people who enjoy martial arts because a) it's good exercise and B) they don't always happen to be carrying a gun on them.

[Lu]

Liuzhou, what's the problem? You don't have to watch those movies, I happen to love them, and fortunately many others also like them, otherwise they wouldn't be made. I don't know how many people practice wushu/gongfu/etc, but I do know there are lots, and I'm sure most of them have a good time while doing it. You don't have to join them.

And if someone who knows gongfu ever tries to kick you ass, you can always take your own advice. Assuming you have a gun with you.

[Senzhi]

I can't speak for the abovementioned martial arts (or sports, if you like this word more appropriate), except well ... for, indeed, the movies.

However, I've done Judo from a very young age until I graduated. It was my mother who forced me to, even though I never had any interest in it. And there's actually one major thing it gave me that made me succeed in life: self-confidence. I honestly have to admit I wouldn't have been the same man without it ...

It also gave me a bunch of lifetime friends ...

[lilongyue]

Yes, its Sanda. I just spent a month hanging around with a foreigner who was studying Wingchun, Yongchunquan in Mandarin, and so I listened to endless conversations about gongfu with him and Chinese who had also practiced other forms of gongfu. Sanda is a Chinese martial art, and was development relatively recently. I heard it was created in response to Western style boxing, as it seems that boxing is a highly efficient means of kicking someone's butt, more so than many forms of Asian martial arts (at least in terms of street fighting). Perhaps the difference in names is due to Mandarin and Cantonese pronunciation? Even though my friend spoke some Mandarin, when he talked about Wingchun, many of the names he used for the moves use the Cantonese pronunciation, as it was principally a Southern Chinese form of gongfu, and in the West most of the teachers either were Southern Chinese, or had studied in Southern China.

Regarding the number of Chinese who study gongfu, I have to agree with Liuzhou. Chinese themselves admit that gongfu does not interest the majority of the population. In all actual fact, gongfu sits on the outer edge of Chinese culture, meaning that all Chinese know something about it, will act proud of China's contribution to the world of martial arts (in the same way they are proud of anything Chinese), but other than some lip service, most Chinese don't care much about it. Every Chinese person that met my friend who is studying Wingchun knew what Wingchun was, but that was about it. They didn't know anything about its history (other than the fact that Bruce Lee studied it for a while), or how it was different from other forms of martial arts, etc. Gongfu doesn't get the same widespread level of acceptance and respect that calligraphy does, for example.

[Meng Lelan]

In a country of 1.4 billion people, "thousands" is negligible.

Read my post again, I said Chinese and non-Chinese. I wasn't referring to just China alone by itself, I was referring to all over the world.

And besides I really don't see the point in your posts trying to assert the point or pointlessness of wushu/gongfu/sanda because hero doug wanted to know what sanda was all about, he wasn't asking about what we think of wushu/gongfu/sanda.

If you want to complain/comment/criticize about the idea of wushu/gongfu/martial arts then go to this forums where you can do all you want. Lots of people waiting to hear from you:

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/index.php

[L-F-J]

sanda was created in the early 1900's as a chinese military combat art. it incorporated knees, elbows, even knife fighting. they fought on a platform without pads or rules to prepare for real combat. its what they still train today.

there used to be several videos on some techniques used by the chinese military on youtube. cant find it now though. but originally, it was "military sanda".

later, as the government began to standardize martial arts into competitive and performance arts, contemporary wushu was developed along with "sport sanda", with all the protective gear and rules for the ring.

[liuzhou]

Liuzhou, what's the problem? You don't have to watch those movies, I happen to love them

No one is even suggesting that you shouldn't watch and enjoy those movies.There is no problem.

Unless people think it's real life.

I like Tom and Jerry cartoons.

[renzhe]

Sanda is as real-life as boxing. No magic there.

[Meng Lelan]

Sanda is as real-life as boxing. No magic there.

Sanda is a lot like boxing, also kicking is permitted too. My shifu offers sanda (sparring) and have a couple of really good students in there, but I've never done sanda myself.

[Hero Doug]

To all those who posted about what Sanda is thanks, it seems that he was probably learning Sanda and not Sandao.

And to the argument about Kungfu being impractical, I just have to say that it's a movie, not a practical application or the art.

Every art has something to offer, take what you like from it.