Chinese names and surnames.

[klkkx]

Hello, everyone.

I am doing my Phd and I use a lot of references from Chinese scientists. The problem is that I can't tell which is the surname and which is the given name. For example, I have a name Ping Shen. Should I write P. Shen or S. Ping?

[imron]

Unfortunately in a situation like this, there's no easy way to tell. However if you are referencing work or publications from these scientists, then presumably there will be other people/publications who have already referenced/quoted their works and you can check how they were referenced. Failing that, you could also try contacting the scientists directly.

[renzhe]

It's difficult.

Generally, the Chinese will put their family name first, followed by the given name.

But often, when dealing with foreign audiences (like in international journals or conference proceedings), they will be written the "Western" way, family name last. Often because the journal/proceedings prescribes such a standard. If you are citing an international article, chances are that it's written the "Western" way and that the name given last will be the family name.

In the case of Ping Shen, Shen is the family name, as there is no family name Ping that I'm aware of. But you cannot always know this.

The safest way to check is to google the people and look at their webpage how they write it. The family name should come first, or be capitalised, or be followed by a comma. Also, active scientists will often maintain an online list of their own publications, and you can see how they cited themselves.

[imron]

as there is no family name Ping that I'm aware of.

My 现代汉语词典 lists 平 (Ping) as a surname.

[renzhe]

I stand corrected. It's not a very common one, though.

[calibre2001]

I have a friend who's surname is Ping. Yes it's real

[skylee]

I've found a scientist's name "Ping Shen" in this webpage (footnote No. items 6 and 9). Judging from the way the other names are arranged (given names usually have two syllables), Shen is the surname and Ping is the given name (if this is the same scientist as the OP quoted).

And why can't the full names be quoted? Why must the OP quote their initials?

[DrWatson]

All journals and publications usually have guidelines for publishing and submitting. You have to follow those guidelines if you want to have a chance of getting published.

I suspect the OP needs to consider the original publication. Was it a publication outside of Asia? Or is the publication in Chinese or other Asian languages that normally list surname first?

[xianu]

I run into this from time to time, as well. I think the general rule for these 2 character names (which I know confuses a lot of Chinese when they hear the name in the west) is that if the article is written in Chinese, or Japanese, (maybe Korean, too?) then it goes surname first, if the article is written in English or another western language, surname is last. I believe this works whether the person you are citing is the author, or is someone who has been cited in the article, itself.

[qtttt]

I agree with XianJu. In the East, names are usually referred by last name first then the first name. In this case, Ping would be the last name and Shen is the first. That's what i believe.

[Hofmann]

I always put the surname first, regardless of what kind of name it is.

Martin Heidegger --> Heidegger, M.

Ping Shen --> Ping S.

[liuzhou]

It would be much easier to understand these 'explanations' if you stopped using 'first name' and 'last name'.

"The last name is first and the first name is last" is not at all helpful.

In Asia, the family name (surname) is usually given first and the given name follows.

Much clearer.

[Lu]

I think the general rule for these 2 character names (which I know confuses a lot of Chinese when they hear the name in the west) is that if the article is written in Chinese, or Japanese, (maybe Korean, too?) then it goes surname first, if the article is written in English or another western language, surname is last.

Is this true? I always cringe whenI see, say, WANG Wei, professor at Beida, publishing as Wei Wang. (Or when Gong Li is listed as Li Gong.) It just feels so wrong.

As to Shen Ping: if it's a book he wrote it should have a colofon that makes clear what is the surname. If it's an article, it may have something similar. Failing that, try to find another place where he is quoted, or find his website, or see how he is mentioned at the website of the university he works for. If he's impossible to find, make an educated guess (mine would be he is SHEN Ping).

[imron]

Is this true? I always cringe whenI see, say, WANG Wei, professor at Beida, publishing as Wei Wang. (Or when Gong Li is listed as Li Gong.) It just feels so wrong.

I agree.

[PurpleMist]

I was reading the article "Mei Lanfang, the latest film by Chen Kaige" on the CCTV/English website:www.cctv.com/english/special/meilanfang/01/index.shtml

I just cannot understand why CCTV cannot stick to the way Chinese names have been written since the beginning of Chinese civilisation. The surname always comes first, then the given name or names of a person. So it is Mei Lanfang, which is correct and I am glad this hasn't been altered to suit foreigners. But I see names such as Ziyi Zhang, Kaige Chen, Honglei Sun, Xueqi Wang under the Director/Cast list.

And if CCTV thinks it is helping the foreigners understand Chinese names, I think they have just added to their confusion. On this same webpage, there are two versions to Chen Kaige's name. One is Chen Kaige and another is Kaige Chen. Why not go ahead and write Lanfang Mei?

It is high time that the other people in the world learn about Chinese culture and how Chinese names are written. I never see the Koreans pervert their names when written in English to suit the rest of the world. Where is the pride of the Chinese? Does China still have this subservient mentality?

In all my years working for US companies, I have always written my Chinese name the way it is: "Kang Youming", and never "Youming Kang". My colleagues in the US and Europe just need to learn that this is how we write our name. We need not bend over backwards or be apologetic about it.

I am so disappointed with you CCTV/English. But it is still not too late to make amends.

[roddy]

I doubt CCTV would normally do that, and in this case I'd lay money they've copied and pasted from the IMDB without realizing - the IMDB always puts given names first for Chinese names (and at least is consistent about it.) Nothing subservient or apologetic - just lazy and unobservant. If you go and post on Tianya about CCTV bending over backwards to accommodate culturally-imperialistic foreigners you can probably get it changed easily enough - quick Internet campaign works wonders nowadays . . .

Edit: and . .

I just cannot understand why CCTV cannot stick to the way Chinese names have been written since the beginning of Chinese civilisation.

Wouldn't surnames be a relatively recent invention compared to Chinese civilization?

Edited December 6, 2008 at 03:00 AM by roddy

[renzhe]

I never see the Koreans pervert their names when written in English to suit the rest of the world.

Every Korean I've met in Europe put their family name last when writing addressing potentially non-Korean audience.

EDIT: I realise you're talking about state media, though.

Edited December 6, 2008 at 01:57 PM by renzhe

[Lu]

Purplemist, I completely agree. Maybe you can write to ask them to change it.

The Japanese do turn their names around when they have a foreign audience (Yukio Mishima is actually Mishima Yukio), and I wish they didn't. But at least they're consistant about it.

[HashiriKata]

Wouldn't surnames be a relatively recent invention compared to Chinese civilization?

I think Chinese surnames are in fact as ancient as anything I've read in Chinese history. Japanese surnames, on the other hand, may be said to be a fairly recent phenomenon.