2 years post-BA job experience requirement for Z Work Visa? + questions about F visa

[bottledpoetry]

Hey guys,

Thanks for taking a look at another frustrating work visa tale. Advice and help always appreciated, especially from people who have succeeded in getting a Z work visa AFTER the Olympics

So here's the deal. I wanted to see if any of my fellow forum-goers are running up against this new requirement stating that Z work visa applicants must have two years of work experience after obtaining their bachelors' degree.

I currently work for a publication based in America, but have been looking far and wide to do journalism work in China--even though I am a new graduate, I have work experience dating back to 2002. I basically know about this new requirement after having the unfortunate (but oh so quintessential) experience of being a top candidate for a editorial job, only to be told during the end stretch that my recent graduation date threw a wrench into the works. HR doubted that they could get me a work visa because of this new 2 year requirement (which doesn't count pre-Bachelors' work experience), and they wouldn't start working on it unless I got the job offer. : But here's the catch 22--the hiring manager openly expressed that my visa situation was the biggest obstacle between me and said job offer.

I'm still waiting to hear back about their final decision. But in the mean time, I'm trying to understand and work with what seems to be constantly mutating regulations. This two year one, I hear, took effect after the Olympics. Any advice, whether it be personal experience, info listed on a legit website somewhere, hearsay from visa agencies, etc.--would be immensely appreciated. The most important thing is that its up to date.

Currently, I got the guanxi to switch from my student F visa to a 6 month F Business Visa and plan to get that done in Hong Kong asap. It's been my ambition to come to China since high school and like some of you, I've spent a substantial amount of time trying to build a life here (one that includes long term boyfriend AND a pet cat) only to run up against these new regulations that can turn my life upside down. As a rather A-type twenty something in a popular field, I feel the need to work my butt off and build up a stunning CV--and if I can't do that here than the only option is to leave.

SOOOOO. After that thoroughly long rant here are my facts and some rather elaborate questions:

1. Currently on a student F Visa ending in January, but will soon switch over to Business F Visa with the help of power-wielding relative. No, they can't get me a work visa. Is there anything that I should know about the F Business Visa application process in Hong Kong?

2. I am a US Citizen, but born in China. I also have property in my name in Shanghai. A long shot, but will any of this help me to obtain a work visa?

3. How possible is it to get hired and work on an F Business Visa for a non-teaching position in the current environment, after all visa grantings have in general become more stringent?

4. Has anybody ever applied for the work permit and succeeded with an "unofficial official diploma"?

Note on this!: My BA diploma is "in the mail", according to school counseling, and in the mean time I have a letter from my school stating that I have completed all the requirements and can use the letter as proof of degree until the thing actually arrives in the mail. In case you're wondering how I ended up in this weird situation--I finished my degree in three years, and spent the last year in China on student research fellowships, savings and freelance assignments. The fellowships required enrollment in independent study classes, so I technically did not graduate until this summer even though I haven't been at university for almost a year.

I did a search on this topic in the forum and on the Beijinger resource and found scant and scattered information. I'd like to open it up for discussion here. So please share your experiences and insights on this new requirement--what you've heard and whether you've bumped into the same wall or just to add helpful comments.

Thanks a bunch!!

Edited November 28, 2008 at 02:03 PM by bottledpoetry

[roddy]

info listed on a legit website somewhere

I went looking for it. Took a bit of finding, but the actual requirement on the Beijing Labour Bureau (or whatever) website is

（4） 外国人的中文简历和任职资格证明(学历证书和专业技能资格证书的原件和复印件)及护照复印件（需大学本科以上学历及二年以上相关工作经验）；

Forgive me if I'm telling you things you already know, but:

What happens is that to get the work visa your employer needs to apply for a 外国人入境就业许可证书 from the labour authorities, or a similar document from the Foreign Expert folk. It seems to be at this point that the work experience requirement is being applied - embassies don't care, as long as you've got the permission from one of the two authorities, they're happy. But it looks like you can't get that without . . . .

(then once you've used the 许可证书 to get your work visa and entered the country, you then go back to the same people and get a 外国人就业证. 'Cos you need that and your medical for the 居留证. 证ed out yet?)

One tack your company may not have considered is applying to the other issuing authority. Presumably they deal with one or the other usually. Potentially the one they don't usually deal with applies the rules differently or is more flexible. Or maybe they have offices in different locations? You could be officially employed somewhere the regulations are more bendy, and then seconded to where they actually want you?

I can't see your place of birth or property ownership being a great deal of help. Perhaps as 'supplementary materials' or something if the company is willing to go in and basically ask for a favour - but it's the company's job to get the permission for you to get a working visa, and if they're not willing to go to bat for you I'm not sure there's much you can do.

Oh, numbered questions. That makes things easier

1) Watch out for length of stay restrictions. That six month visa is going to look a lot less attractive if you have to leave the country every 30 days.

2) As above, I don't think so. Maybe for a long-term tourist visa (especially if you have family here)

3) Depends on the firm, I think. The more 正规 the company, the less keen they're likely to be.

4) Dunno

Good luck with this, and let us know how you get on.

[bottledpoetry]

Hi Roddy,

thanks for the info I really appreciate the specificity. Right now I'm typing out of a internet cafe in Hong Kong try to get that F visa done. It looks like the company may be willing to make an exception, even though they originally told me the work visa would be a huge impediment. I'll keep you guys updated once I know more from HR. I'm meeting with someone tomorrow to discuss over the property stuff. Hope nobody else is meeting problems with this two year requirement

Thanks again!!!

[heifeng]

Hope nobody else is meeting problems with this two year requirement

Before the olympics and after graduating from BNU with a masters my friend's roommate had to go back to Malaysia for this reason instead of finding work in China. I don't know the specifics, but I remember this 2 year requirement being mentioned back then when I asked my friend why her roommie was leaving after living in China for so long...

[zhen_shuai]

Hope nobody else is meeting problems with this two year requirement

I have been working at a small English school in Shanghai on an L visa for the last month and a half. The Human Resources manager who is in charge of arranging my visa is has told me that she can't get me a Foreign Experts Certificate (专家证）because I don't have two years of post-college work experience (I just graduated with my BA in July).

I signed a 1-year contract about a week after being hired. The contract stipulates they will help me get a work visa.

At that point I had about a week left on my visa （9/20). On the HR's recomendation I got an 1-month extension of my L visa at the Immigration Bureau (上海市出入境管理局) in Pudong.

My second or third week at the company they had arranged for me to get a medical exam.

After this they had me buy a plane ticket to Hong Kong at which point I *assumed* I would be given the correct documents to apply for a　Z- visa. A day before I was to leave I was told they just wanted me to pick up a new L visa while they continued to work out the paperwork to get me a 专家证.

When I asked about applying for the Z-visa in HK, the HR told me it was impossible for me to get a work permit for Shanghai in Hong Kong and appeared to be compeletely aware of how the process of applying for a Z-visa works. She has repeatedly told me I can get my L-visa converted to a Z-visa in Shanghai, without leaving the country, once I get my 专家证.

Now that I am back on a 6-month / 30-day L visa they've told me they can't get a Z-visa because I can't get a 专家证. When I asked about instead getting a 外国人就业许可证 from the Labor Bureau she said that document is even harder to get and that even if we get it, we will still need to get a 专家证. And so she said it was useless to research the requirements for the 外国人就业许可证.

Yesterday she told me I should get a TESOL or TEFL degree, apparently because it might help me get the 专家证.

Now they are saying they are going to try to get me an F visa and then she asked me to look up how we do that. So they are working on that but don't know how to do it yet?

Honestly I'm at my wits end here. I can't tell if this person is honestly incompetent or maliciously avoiding getting me my visa.

Two questions:

1. Can anyone provide a reputable source for the process of getting a work visa in Shanghai in Chinese that I can show to my HR (and, the next step I suppose, her boss)? Google keeps pulling up 百度知道 and sketchy seeming travel agents.

2. Also, if I get caught teaching on a L-visa / F-visa, what are the potential consequences and how likely are they to be enforced? Should I be looking for a new job?