Syllables that don't exist

[shivasprogeny]

I was wondering if anyone has studied or knows where I can find an answer to a question about the limit of Chinese syllables. I've done plenty of googling and haven't found anything.

Basically I am curious as to why there are several legitimate syllables that simply don't exist in Mandarin.

For instance pou exists but boudoes not; lia does, nia does not.

[imron]

Here is a syllable table for pinyin.

[yonglin]

Here is a syllable table for pinyin.

Anyone knows what character there is for diang?! Sogou pinyin input refuses to accept this as a syllable.

[liuzhou]

I am curious as to why there are several legitimate syllables that simply don't exist in Mandarin.

Every language has this feature. In linguistics they are known as accidental gaps. We have them In English, too.

http://www2.let.uu.nl/Uil-OTS/Lexicon/zoek.pl?lemma=accidental+gap

[roddy]

Anyone knows what character there is for diang?

Can't find anything on Unihan, which I generally take as meaning it either doesn't exist, or is so obscure that you can pretend it doesn't exist.

[chenpv]

I generally take as meaning it either doesn't exist, or is so obscure that you can pretend it doesn't exist.

Anyone in Beijing is encouraged to make an excursion to Qianmen, find a train like shuttle vehicle and ask its driver what it is called.

[roddy]

Amusingly enough, I'm due to go to Qianmen today. Perhaps you can show me the character for diang so I'll be able to read the signs pointing me towards this train-like shuttle vehicle.

[roddy]

Are you referring to 铛铛车 for trams? I can't see that pronounced as diang anywhere.

[chenpv]

Then it won't be fun any more and you would lose one precious opportunity to correspond with Chinese people, which may or may not be neccessary, but anyhow is able to be of assistance in a meager way to boost interests in China in general.

Edit: Did you make that excursion?

[roddy]

Don't 卖关子, yonglin is waiting for an answer . . .

[chenpv]

I am not selling any guanzi, but wish to get an answer myself as well. I only know the sound but am also curious to find out the character. Don't you think a trip to Qianmen all worthwhile the time you'd put in to help two fellow Chinese forumers? Do remember to have a 合影 with the driver.

[zhwj]

Here's an article that includes the following:

“铛铛儿车”里边的这个“铛”字，可不能读成“铃铛”的dāng(当)，播音员念错了。而要发生音变，读做diāng(没有直音字可以代替)，连起来读，是diang·diangr　che，第二个铛字轻声、儿化。陈刚先生的《北京方言词典》(1985年出版)，就是这样注音，并释义为“电车”的。不过，正字陈先生写作“□”，而不是“铛”。1936年出版的《国语辞典》“□□儿车”词条下，亦注出是“电车之俗称”，注音为ㄉㄧㄤ(国音字母)即diāng。

In the PDF linked off that page, the character □ is the simplified equivalent of 噹 (don't know which it was in 1936).

Qianmen is so Disney-fied these days that I wouldn't put much stock in any linguistic data you gather from anyone there.

[ImBmen]

there is no such a character prounced 'diang' . it's ususlly used to imitate a sound when people talk. there are some words you can't find in a dictionary. some of them have the prototype character like diang ,and some not.

[roddy]

Qianmen is so Disney-fied these days that I wouldn't put much stock in any linguistic data you gather from anyone there.

You're not wrong - was there for the first time today since it got redone and was shocked at how bad it was. It might have been more acceptable if they'd actually got tenants for the shops, but all the ones we saw (we only got a few hundred meters before giving up) were empty. But I digress.

The trams weren't running, so I didn't get an opportunity to ask any drivers what noise their bell makes. Although surely they'd just ring it anyway.

it's ususlly used to imitate a sound when people talk

So if you hear someone having a conversation, and they describe a bell or something as making a 'diang' noise, and then later you're telling a friend on MSN about that conversation - how do you write it?

[ImBmen]

So if you hear someone having a conversation, and they describe a bell or something as making a 'diang' noise, and then later you're telling a friend on MSN about that conversation - how do you write it?

when someone slam the door,you can use 'bang' , maybe 'biang' in some dialect.but when you say it people know that you actully mean 嗙(pang).so if you want to write a character doesnt exist,you can try to find if there is a original character.and if there is not,then i suggest using Pinyin

[WilsonFong]

On a somewhat related note, does anyone know why Mandarin has some syllables which contain consonant clusters that do not exist in their simpler forms (sorry I know I'm not phrasing this correctly)? For example, why is there "bian" and "yan" but not something like the English "ben"? Or "duo" and "wo" but no pinyin "do"? Does this exist in any other language? I'm pretty sure it doesn't for English (right?).

Yeah I know it's a pointless question but it's something that's always kinda bugged me.

[Hofmann]

Diphthongs, those are. English doesn't have a syllable ending with pure o. It's either [əʊ̯] for British English or [oʊ̯] for American English. Also, many single letters in English represent a diphthong. For this reason, English speakers may turn something that isn't supposed to be a diphthong into a diphthong, e.g. 夜 [jɛ] becomes [jeɪ].

[Lu]

Or "duo" and "wo" but no pinyin "do"?

This is because of pinyin rules.

u in the beginning of a word becomes w; or, of course, w in the middle of a word becomes u. Hua is actually hwa, just as wo is actually uo. So the answer to your question is that there is no do and also no wo.

Bopomofo clears some of those things up.

[renzhe]

Does this exist in any other language? I'm pretty sure it doesn't for English (right?).

It does.

For example, the word "bdsjh" does not exist in English

But, just like Lu said, wo and duo are both "uo" and yan and bian are both "ian".

These finals are written differently when they are alone (ian -> yan, uo -> wo) partly because it makes it much easier to write multi-syllable words.