Translation - pls help

[IGING]

Please help me to translate this sentence into English :

依 靠 關 係 深 的 人, 也 就 可 靠 了.

It’s translated from LunYu by 楊伯峻 :

«因 不 失 其 親, 亦 可 宗 也.»

Thanks

[skylee]

«因 不 失 其 親, 亦 可 宗 也.»

Take a look at the last sentence of Verse 13 of Chapter 1 (page 7) -> http://books.google.com.hk/books?hl=zh-TW&id=DicvjslBOwAC&dq=analects&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=GH6FTG0Bly&sig=W7T6-TVBUopQja6VHPvRbtPJkks&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result#PPP1,M1

[IGING]

Dear Skylee

Thanks a lot.

The English version you have given is translated by James Legge based on 朱熹's explanation.

The second part of LunYu section (1-13) has lots of different translations. They are based on either 孔安國 or 朱熹.

杨伯峻's version of section (1-13) is not approved by some people. One of them has given the following translation:

处在高位上的人不失其可靠可亲之人，也就可以廷续宗室了.

Other translations:

1/ William Cheung's:

(Yu Tzǔ said, «When trustworthiness complements righteousness, words can be fulfilled. When courtesy complements the rites, shame and disgrace are kept afar. ) Thereby those closest are not lost and the honour of the ancestors is preserved.»

(Yu Tzǔ sprach: »Wenn Zuverlässigkeit Rechtschaffenheit ergänzt wird, können Versprechen erfüllt werden. Wenn gutes Betragen die Riten ergänzt, werden Schmach und Schande ferngehalten.) Auf diese Weise verlieren sich die am nächsten befindlichen nicht und die Ehre der Vorfahren wird gewahrt.«

(Yu Tzǔ dit: «Quand la loyauté complète la droiture, les paroles données peuvent être réalisées. Quand la courtoisie complète les rites, honte et déshonneur sont gardés à distance.) Ainsi, ceux qui sont les plus proches ne sont pas perdus et l’honneur des ancêtres est préservé.»

2/ Couvreur's

(Iou tzeu dit : « Toute promesse conforme à la justice peut être tenue. Tout respect ajusté aux rites éloigne honte et déshonneur.) Si vous choisissez pour protecteur un homme digne de votre amitié et de votre confiance, vous pourrez lui rester attaché à jamais. »

3/ Pauthier's:

(Yeou-tseu dit : Celui qui ne promet que ce qui est conforme à la justice, peut tenir sa parole; celui dont la crainte et le respect sont conformes aux lois de la politesse, éloigne de lui la honte et le déshonneur.) Par la même raison, si l'on ne perd pas en même temps les personnes avec lesquelles on est uni par des liens étroits de parenté, on peut devenir un chef de famille.

杨伯峻's version (依靠关系深的人，也就可靠了.) is not clear enough for me, so I need an English translation of you or other friends for correct understanding.

Thanks again.

IGING

Edited December 10, 2008 at 01:25 AM by IGING

[HashiriKata]

Please help me to translate this sentence into English :

依 靠 關 係 深 的 人, 也 就 可 靠 了.

Just on the face of what I can see in the sentence, I'd translate it as:

"Those who value their relationship with others are themselves trustworthy."

[IGING]

Dear HashiriKata,

Thank you for your translation.

I think the comma has some function in Mr. Yang Bo Jun's intention.

Without comma, the subject is " 依 靠 關 係 深 的 人 "

and the predicate is " 也 就 可 靠 了 ".

Is it possible if the comma is omitted?

Best regards.

[HashiriKata]

Without comma, the subject is " 依 靠 關 係 深 的 人 "

and the predicate is " 也 就 可 靠 了 ".

Is it possible if the comma is omitted?

I don't think with or without the comma in this case would make any material difference. Yes, some writers do use the comma as a stylistic device for various purposes (I personally would go without the comma here).

[IGING]

Thanks.

I don't know why Mr. Yang put the comma in such a position.

Without comma, how about the following translation:

Those who rely on deepest relations are also reliable.

If this translation is acceptable, I think it is not what Confucius meant, because He said:

«君 子 求 諸 己; 小 人 求 諸 人.» (LunYu 15-21)

[HashiriKata]

I think the matter you're dealing with here is beyond the language sufface, to which I must confess ignorance. I hope someone with some relevant knowlege will be around in due course to help you.

All the best,

Edited December 11, 2008 at 11:19 AM by HashiriKata
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