Topolect/dialect/language recognition and comprehension

[Hofmann]

(This is about a non-Mandarin Chinese language, but it is meant for Mandarin speakers, so I have posted it here.)

This poll is for speakers of no other Chinese languages besides Mandarin.

Can you identify in which dialect are these conversations?

Can you understand it?

Traditional Chinese:

A：請問廁所在焉道？

B：爾道有五間廁所。一間在北邊忌睡房，一間在西邊同南邊忌睡房之間，一間在車房側邊，一間在樓下廚房側邊，一間在樓下乒乓檯側邊。

A：最近忌在焉道？

B：在儞左手邊。

A：不該。

A：喂！爾個洗手盤無熱水喎。

B：不好意思呀！因爲經濟好差，所以我等熄著熱水爐，慳尐煤氣。

A：恁儞等怎樣沖涼呀？

B：就用凍水恁沖囉。

A：黐線。

B：儞話我黐線，不過古人亦都係恁樣沖涼㗎。而且一個月慳返整百文。

Simplified Chinese:

A：请问厕所在焉道？

B：尔道有五间厕所。一间在北边忌睡房，一间在西边同南边忌睡房之间，一间在车房侧边，一间在楼下厨房侧边，一间在楼下乒乓台侧边。

A：最近忌在焉道？

B：在你左手边。

A：不该。

A：喂！尔个洗手盘无热水喎。

B：不好意思呀！因为经济好差，所以我等熄着热水炉，悭尐煤气。

A：恁你等怎样冲凉呀？

B：就用冻水恁冲啰。

A：黐线。

B：你话我黐线，不过古人亦都系恁样冲凉㗎。而且一个月悭返整百文。

Edited December 14, 2008 at 10:33 PM by Hofmann
Simplified doesn't convert that character.

[renzhe]

Well, I know it's not Shanghainese or standard Mandarin, but I don't know what it is.

I had no problems understanding it though.

EDIT: Of course, this excludes a couple of dialectal characters which can be inferred from the context.

Edited December 13, 2008 at 01:36 PM by renzhe

[Lu]

I can only identify fangyan that I've heard a few times, and only written fangyan that I've read a few times. I'm sure this is not Hokkien/Taiwanese, and fairly sure it's not Shanghainese or Cantonese, and that's about the extent of my knowledge of written fangyan.

[roddy]

I went for mostly understand, can't identify. Mostly understand as I'm fine up till the last two lines and then I got a bit confused, although I think I've mostly got it now. As for which dialect - no idea, but I'd guess at something relatively close to Cantonese.

[randall_flagg]

No clue what the regional dialect would be, but may I venture the guess that this was artificially created? Looks like the result of linguists having fun to me!

[heifeng]

thru the power of google, plus the use of this word: 黐线 & 啰 i think i can 'guess' what dialect this is suppose to be..maybe..

[Mugi]

With a slight background in other non-Mandarin Chinese languages, I have refrained from voting. Although I can't identify the specific dialect, both conversations would seem to be in a form of Cantonese, probably a non Guangfu/Yuehai (廣府/粵海) dialect.

I am curious as to how the OP thinks that Mandarin only speakers might be able to identify the language though ...

[Hofmann]

I'm not sure, but undoubtedly they should have had exposure to some of this dialect. They should have picked up some vocabulary, which they might use to identify this dialect. However, there's a little twist I put in.

What I'm wondering is who, besides me, identified this and understood completely.

[Mugi]

However, there's a little twist I put in.

Are you saying that randall is on the money?

[Hofmann]

No. It's a real dialect. Oh, it looks like one more person has identified it.

[xieco]

Well, I think OP still wants us to guess for a while, so... I don't know if my guess is right, but I can recognize most of it. It seems you use some weird characters to obscure the whole stuff... but any native like me, with a bit of hearsay about "dialectal" characters, would know very well what's going on.

(Where's Yuehai, btw?)

[Hofmann]

Well, I guess I'll spill it. It's Standard Cantonese (AKA Yuehai). I used some less common and more conservative (and correct!) characters here, so those looking for those new 口-radical characters such as 哋 would not be able to identify it without some other knowledge. I'd even say that some Cantonese speakers might not be able to identify it. I expect that writing this way helped comprehension for those who voted that they could understand it, but you'll have to say for yourself.

I thought some vocabulary such as 黐線 would be huge hints.

I'm curious as to why Lu guessed it's probably not Cantonese, while roddy guessed it's something close to Cantonese.

[roddy]

My guess was basically due to knowing that Cantonese has 唔该 and here we had 不该, so I figured they weren't the same but a bit similar. 黐线 didn't help as I have no idea what it means. 冲凉 I understand to be a more common term in the south, though could be wrong on that. What really confused me was 悭返整百文 until after posting and I realized 文 here refers to money - although that didn't help me identify anything.

[Mugi]

I used some less common and more conservative (and correct!) characters here

Perhaps you would mind elucidating on the choice of the specific characters below. In order to claim that these are the "correct" characters, you need to demonstrate their phonological (including tone) integrity across time, as well as their semantic integrity, with respect to present day Yuehai Cantonese.

在

焉道

爾道

忌

儞

不(該)

無

等

恁

怎

係

文

For some of these I'm sure you'll be able to provide convincing arguments, but for others I would be surprised. There are a couple of other character usages I'm curious about, but will leave them for another day.

Also, for those of us who are perhaps less aquainted with Cantonese than yourself, would you mind writing out the texts in a more standard orthography, or even in romanization?

[wai ming]

Also, for those of us who are perhaps less aquainted with Cantonese than yourself, would you mind writing out the texts in a more standard orthography, or even in romanization?

I'll have a go:

A : 請問廁所喺邊度？

B : 呢度有五間廁所。一間喺北邊嘅睡房，一間喺西邊同南邊嘅睡房之間，一間喺車房側邊，一間喺樓下廚房側邊，一間喺樓下乒乓檯側邊。

A：最近嘅喺邊道？

B：喺你左手邊。

A：唔該。

A：喂！呢個洗手盤冇熱水喎。

B：唔好意思呀！因爲經濟好差，所以我哋熄著熱水爐，慳啲煤氣。

A：噉(or 咁)你哋點樣沖涼呀？

B：就用凍水噉(or 咁)沖囉。

A：黐線。

B：你話我黐線，不過古人亦都係噉(or 咁)樣沖涼㗎*。而且一個月慳返成百蚊。

*My browser (Firefox) doesn't display the character before this asterisk properly, so I'm not sure what it's supposed to be, but I'd guess 噃 or some other particle.

[Hofmann]

wai ming got it. The character with the asterisk is 口+架.

My sources are numerous and scattered, and I admit some of them don't have much supporting material.

This document lists 恁, 忌, among others on page 127 (of the document. 249 of the scan). It even has 囉 as 那, which I didn't use.

Also, feel free to move this to the Non-Mandarin Chinese section.

[Lu]

I used some less common and more conservative (and correct!) characters here

That's exactly why I didn't recognize it as Cantonese.

I don't actually know Cantonese, but I can recognize the most common special characters in written Cantonese, and I didn't see them in this text, so concluded that it must be something else.

[studentyoung]

Can you identify in which dialect are these conversations?

Yes. It’s Cantonese.

Can you understand it?

Yes.

Simplified Chinese:

A：请问厕所在焉道？

A：Excuse me, but where the toilet is?

B：尔道有五间厕所。一间在北边忌睡房，一间在西边同南边忌睡房之间，一间在车房侧边，一间在楼下厨房侧边，一间在楼下乒乓台侧边。

B：Here are five toilets. One is in the north bedroom, one is between the west bedroom and the south bedroom, one is next to the garage in the downstairs, and one is next to the ping-pong table in the downstairs.

A：最近忌在焉道？

A：Which is the closest one?

B：在你左手边。

B：Right next to your left hand.

A：不该。

A：Thanks!

A：喂！尔个洗手盘无热水喎。

A：Hey, no hot water is available at this washing table.

B：不好意思呀！因为经济好差，所以我等熄着热水炉，悭尐煤气。

B：Sorry! For the economy is not so good, I’ve turned off the hot-water stove to save the gas.

A：恁你等怎样冲凉呀？

A：How do you take a bath?

B：就用冻水恁冲啰。

B：With cold water.

A：黐线。

A：You’re crazy!

B：你话我黐线，不过古人亦都系恁样冲凉㗎。而且一个月悭返整百文。

B：You’re calling me crazy! Anyway, ancient people did in the same way. And it can save one hundred dollar per month.

Cheers!

Edited December 22, 2008 at 07:13 AM by studentyoung

[heifeng]

A：请问厕所在焉道？

A：Excuse me, but where the toilet is?

studentyoung tsk tsk tsk...come on now~~ your English is awesome (and I know this from your posts when you translate articles), but what's going on here?

[studentyoung]

studentyoung tsk tsk tsk...come on now~~ your English is awesome (and I know this from your posts when you translate articles), but what's going on here?

:oops: Sorry, everyone! :oops:

(死啦，今次又摆乌龙了！[Cantonese] / Oh dear, what an "own goal"! :wall:wall:oops:)

Cheers!