Unprofessional

[Scoobyqueen]

Have you ever had this experience:

[trevelyan]

Do they work for a larger company, or run their own small business? There is always status signalling when people make contact. And you get all kinds especially with smaller companies. I'd focus more on what their business is and whether you can help them (and vice versa) and less on how they dress.

I'd be interested to hear more since although I haven't had that sort of experience, I'm not terribly worried about keeping up appearances myself. A more common from my exchanges with Chinese organizations is for people to be very eager to rush things through and get a deal made, and then have projects stall when the details are set and people figure out if they really want to do it.

Not a problem when you are used to it, but definitely something I'd advise anyone else to be heads up when doing sales or committing time and resources to a project, since it's since it's easy to get led on if it's your first time dealing with it.

[roddy]

I wouldn't be surprised at all for a first meeting - that's likely to be about getting to know each other, business, if any, will come later. Never seen any real business discussed over food in China, unless you count knocking back alcohol to toasts of 'To vaguely-defined plans of cooperation'

Is it unprofessional in Western terms - I guess so. But for China it sounds pretty normal. If you want to discuss business you might want to try meeting at their or your offices, or a cafe / teahouse type venue. But don't be surprised if they won't sign anything until they've seen you drunk and singing karaoke.

[Lu]

IMO this falls in the same category as doing business with a hotmail address. In the west this would cost you the contract, in China it's normal. In such cases, it might be wise to not hold Chinese companies to western practices.

[Scoobyqueen]

Thanks for the responses

[roddy]

Not sure the Chinese have to blend in with the masses - they are the masses.

If you're the one spending the money, I'd say you'd be justified in setting the rules though - sure, you'd be happy to go for dinner, say after a presentation on what they can do for you given at your offices . . .

[Senzhi]

If you're the one spending the money, I'd say you'd be justified in setting the rules though - sure, you'd be happy to go for dinner, say after a presentation on what they can do for you given at your offices . . .

Agreed. It's the investor/buyer/spender who sets the cultural rules of doing business, regardless of location or status.

But so far I've not seen many Chinese businessfolks understand this principle. So it may be wise to be a bit forgiving, or at the very least explaining. But of course not too much.

[Lu]

But you are in China, yes? So I assume that you see a lot of Chinese business-doing around you. And yet even you are not sure what to make of something that is not so unusual in China.

The people of that small business are also in China, and so they probably haven't seen a lot of western business-doing, and are used to their own Chinese way. Perhaps they are willing to learn, but just haven't picked up on this particular custom of western business yet. As you experienced, it's not that easy.

You are free to judge the company you want to do business with in whatever way you want, but I think it can be wise to overlook certain cultural traits at times, if the work they deliver is good. In the end, that's what matters.

If you decide not to hire them, you might want to explain to them exactly why (without too much loss of face), so they have a chance to chance their style next time they try to do business with a western customer.

[gougou]

You are free to judge the company you want to do business with in whatever way you want, but I think it can be wise to overlook certain cultural traits at times, if the work they deliver is good. In the end, that's what matters.

Completely agree. In China, it's often the people with the most money/power/experience that will look the least professional in Western terms.

If you want to invest your money elsewhere, that certainly is your right, but considering that you're not just making a donation, but also expecting something in return, you might wish to consider more factors than just how comfortable they made you feel during dinner. If your goal is to have them reach Chinese consumers (through advertising or PR), they might be very knowledgeable at that even if they don't understand Western customs.

[heifeng]

You are free to judge the company you want to do business with in whatever way you want, but I think it can be wise to overlook certain cultural traits at times, if the work they deliver is good. In the end, that's what matters.

I agree with Lu.

I thought about this thread today as my coworkers and I discussed how some of us (PS. We are in the US) feel embarrased when we need to meet with European (and Japanese...and almost every other foreign) customer b/c employees at our company's location tend to dress much more casually than almost anyone that we visit or visits us. Even though we do try to make an effort when we know we need to meet with customers, our idea of dress up (ranging from dark slacks and a button up to khakis and a company logo polo) is different from their suits and ties. Are we taken less seriously in the line of work that we do? Probably not, but I guess that's because our customers know that we tend to dress up less in our culture.

[IMOM0929]

I worked for large US companies in China and in US and dealt with suppliers, distributors in China before. I absolutely agree with some of the previous postings. Professional appearance has to be judged in its cultural context. Chinese in general are more casual than westerners/Japanese in professional and formal occasions. Have you ever seen a Chinese in tux in an opera house? Many Chinese don't pay too much attention to their appearance and perhaps dress to impress is not their priority. I would see how they are going to do your job and ask to see their previous work before dismissing them. Many Chinese believe in substance above surface. Have you heard the saying:"金玉其外, 败絮其中"? Many Chinese believe that especially those working for non-western companies. However if they were from an ad agency on Madison Ave, I would fire them on the spot. Adapt to it and understand what is means in its own cultural context would serve you better than judging it against your home culture.