Pimsleur tapes

[eion_padraig]

so I read the previous posts mentioning these tapes, but they didn't really give much first hand experience using them. Perhaps there were some older ones that said more which were deleted.

I'm wonder what level of success people have had with these tapes in or out of China. I've actually been in Shanghai for two years studying in my free time and I've made a lot of progress with small classes and tutors (mostly grad students studying to be Chinese teachers). However, for 9 months straight, I basically felt frustrated all the time. I've also taken on learning reading and to a lesser degree writing. I'm wondering if using them would improve my tones and grammar.

I'm actually more interested in how well the tapes work for a friend of mine that has just come to China. I know how difficult it is to learn Mandarin in Shanghai when studying on the side, and I want to help her make it easier if possible. I don't think she has quite the motivation that I have and is put off by the perceived difficulty of the language. My questions are the following:

1. How well does this system work for people using correct tones? What about for people who have already learned Chinese, but aren't good with tones? Has it helped anyone improve their intonation?

2. How formal/informal is it? Will speaking the way the tapes do make someone sound stilted?

3. How well have people come away with being able to use Chinese grammar? I'm less interested in how well someone knows the rules, but in how well people are able to use correct grammar when speaking?

4. After learning a decent amount of speaking, has it hampered people in their further learning by not knowing pinyin's romanization? I know some ABCs that speak Chinese really well, but can't read Chinese, nor are they able to use pinyin. I would be worried, this might a later barrier.

I would appreciate any constructive or useful information about them. I've listened to the opening of the tapes and the first lesson. It sounds a bit too good to be true, but then again I buy into certain methodologies being better than others. Either way, use of the language with improve and expand upon the base the tapes might provide. My friend who recommended them who has just left China, said when he was doing the tapes, he didn't think he was learning much. Then later, he said he would be using the forms he studied through the tapes.

[beirne]

1. How well does this system work for people using correct tones? What about for people who have already learned Chinese, but aren't good with tones? Has it helped anyone improve their intonation?

My first attempt Pimsleur set was the Cantonese one, after studying Mandarin for several years. The tapes do highlight the tones, and there are constant reminders to imitates the sound of the speaker on the tapes. When I was near the end of the initial set I tried speaking some Cantonese to my Chinese girlfriend/teacher. She wanted to know why I didn't speak Mandarin that clearly.

Having said that, the key is using the tones when not parrotting phrases from a tape, and I didn't use the Cantonese after the class so I never found out.

I then tried the Mandarin tapes to try to improve my tones, but it was right after I did the Cantonese tapes. The lessons are the same so I wasn't ready to ask the Miss if speaks Chinese again.

2. How formal/informal is it? Will speaking the way the tapes do make someone sound stilted?

The material in the Quick tapes covered regular situations such asking directions, I thought the guy's accent was a bit different my my girlfriend thought it was normal and she knows better than I.

If you were in the U.S. I would recommend you go to the library and check out the initial Quick & Simple (approximate name) tapes to see how you like them. They otherwise cost around $50 in the U.S., The rest of the tapes cost a lot more. If you can't borrow the tapes for free then just by the Quick set so you can see how you like it before committing hundreds of dollars.

[Haoqide]

I've got the Pimsleur CDs for all 3 full levels of Mandarin (I, II, and III obviously), and they're excellent.

1.) They do pay a lot of attention to the tones, and they do remind you a lot to pay attention to the tones. It's definitely a good investment, in my opinion. I've been told that what little I do speak is very correct. I almost never have to repeat myself when I speak to people in Chinese. In fact, because Pimsleur is so good at teaching the correct tones, native speakers often come back at me with tons of Chinese that I don't understand, thinking I'm more fluent than I am!

2.) It has formal as well as informal language on it, but I think it's pretty standard. You're not learning "standard" mandarin so much as mandarin with the Beijing accent. For example, in standard mandarin, the word for "where" would be "na3 li3" (the na would effectively become a 2nd tone here because of how the tones work), but the way they teach it on the CDs is "nar3" which is more of a Beijing way of pronouncing it.

3.) It's done a pretty good job of teaching me the grammar of Chinese. I don't just use the Pimsleur CDs, though. I also use "Teach Yourself Chinese" by Teach Yourself Books (www.teachyourself.co.uk - yes, it's available in the US), and it covers grammar pretty well, too, so I can't say honestly that Pimsleur has taught me what I know. I do think that you'll get a better overall grasp of grammar if you use books in conjunction with the CDs, though.

4.) Pinyin is a great learning tool for English speakers. It has really helped me A TON! I highly recommend that "Teach Yourself Chinese" book because it covers pinyin very well, and it'll give you what you need to spell out words that you hear in the future, rather than having to ask how to spell them. Also, if you know pinyin, and if you use Windows XP, you can use the built-in IME to type in Pinyin and get han zi (characters) as output, which will really help you learn characters. It's doing a lot for me! So, I guess I wouldn't say that pinyin is a necessity for learning Chinese, but it certainly helps make it go faster, especially in the reading and writing area.

Hope this helps.

[Guest Yau]

I sneaked about the pimsleur as I wondered how cantonese and mandarin are taught. I think this method is really good to assist you to learn a correct pronounciation by a lot of repetition. The speaker in the cantonese learning kit, however, pronounces, too good with the original cantonese accent, which is strange and old fashioned in the eyes of many hongkong people.

In fact, Pimsleur is only good as a complementary tool. After finishing all tapes, i don't think you can handle even a very everyday conversation (even for shopping), but you can imitate most of sounds and it's definitely useful for further learning.

I do my pimsleur on francais too, and my pronounciation can often make me get respect from the class. I think i can speak the sounds almost 90% similiar to professuer, especially the "R" sound

[sfr@rcn.com]

Knowing pinyin will make it a helluva lot easier to look up words in Chinese-English dictionaries.

Sandra

[Ken]

I purchased the Pimsleur mandarin course on cds. I listen to them while driving. I have never, I repeat never been able to conquer a foreign language.

Pimsleur made it possible. You can sometimes find the cds or tapes that are used at a discount.

You can purchase the instant conversation course for about $20 used on Amazon. It is 16 lessons. This would provide the opportunity to evaluate whether additional committment is appropriate.

[Altair]

My experience with the Pimsleur method is that what it teaches it teaches very well and very thoroughly. The problem is that it tends to cover much less material than other methods.

If someone has difficulty with languages in general, the gradual approach and minimal theory of the Pimsleur method is a Godsend. If someone does not, the Pimsleur method can still establish a very good foundation. Again, the problem is that it tends to cover very limited material.

I think Pimsleur works best supplemented with other material that gives students an idea of how to break out of the basics. By itself, I think it is hard to reach a decent level of fluency. Of course, that is also true of almost all the other methods, which tend to try to cover everything, but do not offer enough repetition to help a student achieve real mastery of anything.

[benotnobody]

I got a slightly less-than-legal copy of Pimsleur Mandarin II and III. The material is good (if a little basic), but the pronunciation could improve; my major irk was they never explicitly state that there are 4 tones.