My problem with reading and writing

[SeyzCN]

I understand the concept of the Chinese writing system pretty well now. My problem is remembering all the characters. This is really bothersome because I can type a paragraph in Chinese but I cannot write it. When I have the characters in front of me, I know which one is correct. However, I have big problems writing them out because I forget what they actually are. I also have some trouble reading characters and remembering which they are. Can anyone give any advice or suggestions or comments?

Thanks

SeyzCN

[Hofmann]

Are you memorizing components or strokes or what?

[skylee]

Do you practise writing? Copying characters / passages several times as if you were a child doing his homework? And if you don't remember how to write a particular character do you practise more? This is the way how Chinese people learn to write Chinese. Would it help you?

[Lu]

What worked for me is write them again and again, test yourself the next day, write them some more, and continue until you know them. It takes time and can be frustrating, but it gets easier after a few years.

Good luck!

[renzhe]

The reading problems will disappear with reading practice. In the beginning, it's very common to mix up characters, but it goes away with enough exposure.

As for writing them (correctly), you will need to have a much more vivid memory of all the component parts of each character you want to write (passive vs. active memory). The classical way to do this (also recommended by other posters here) is simply writing characters over and over until they "sit".

Alternatively, you could try learning a component-based input method like Wubi. It forces to you remember the exact makeup of each character while you're typing them.

[HerrPetersen]

While controversial - you might give Rembering (simplified/traditional) Hanzi by James Heisig a chance:

http://www.amazon.com/Remembering-Simplified-Hanzi-Meaning-Characters/dp/0824833236/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1230908314&sr=8-1

I applied his method to learning characters and the ~1000 I learned so far (as in vocabulary - I actually can identify quiet a lot more) stick pretty good.

For me it has worked really good and I hardly forget hanzi - including how to write them.

[eion_padraig]

There is a cool program being developed by some Oberlin College grads. They call it Skritter and it's available now as an open Beta online. It looks like an excellent way to practice actual writing of characters and it seems to get you to practice the words you have difficultly writing. Right now the vocabulary lists are limited, but they might be of use to you.

Good luck.

[KanjiHanzi]

HerrPetersen,

>>> While controversial - you might give Rembering (simplified/traditional) Hanzi by James Heisig a chance:

http://www.amazon.com/Remembering-Si...0908314&sr=8-1

I applied his method to learning characters and the ~1000 I learned so far (as in vocabulary - I actually can identify quiet a lot more) stick pretty good.<<<<

Considering that "Remembering the Hanzi" was so recently released it is pretty impressive that you have acquired that many characters. I am a MUCH slower learner! It took me several months and three attempts spread out over several years before I could say that I KNEW the 2042 characters in Remembering the Kanji.

OTH I now have no problem whatsoever to learn new Hanzi (since I study Mandarin since six months). They merely slide in and find a place in my memory. The main difference is that now also study READINGS in Mandarin of the new characters, a no-no according to Heisig orthodoxy. I am still waiting for my own copy of RtH to arrive from Amazon.com.

Keep it up!

Kanji Hanzi

[sirslope]

I've found there are basically two ways to commit a character to memory, each ultimately leading to the same result and often complementing the other.

One is brute force, which is just writing it again and again over many days, returning to it whenever necessary. If you have access to a glass markerboard, whiteboard or blackboard, you can keep a stock of characters written down for the ones that just don't stick. Having a compact list of troublesome characters in sight at all times is far more efficient than sifting through stacks of paper. Flash cards work, too, but you should afford yourself the opportunity to actually write the character out.

The other technique is to associate the character itself and its components / strokes with some absurd combination of images, actions, and emotions, making it very difficult to break from memory. There is no "wrong" way to memorize a character, so it can be as silly, crazy, or disturbing as you like. This can work very effectively, often committing a rare character to memory for many years, but the obvious challenge is that you require constant creativity. At some point it becomes impractical, like for abstract nouns or particles.

Both techniques serve the purpose of simply "knowing it," and no matter what you'll be investing a bit of time (no way to get around that!) to get there.

[KanjiHanzi]

The other technique is to associate the character itself and its components / strokes with some absurd combination of images, actions, and emotions, making it very difficult to break from memory.

It doesn't HAVE to be an absurd amount :-) You can use fairly basic stuff to get mnemonic support for a character. Usually some image from a characters' etymological roots can act as starting pont

There is no "wrong" way to memorize a character, so it can be as silly, crazy, or disturbing as you like. This can work very effectively, often committing a rare character to memory for many years, but the obvious challenge is that you require constant creativity. At some point it becomes impractical, like for abstract nouns or particles.

It works very efficiently if you dedicate yourself to this path, both in amount of time taking )less) and memory retantion (more). It's correct that it requires a lot of fantasy, creativity and imagination. That's the reason why I never finished Remembering the Kanji the first two times: I got stuck and couldn't come upp with enough good "images" on my own. When I DID finish I used to public stories at Reviewing the Kanji as a starting point or even 'borrowed' the stuff from there.

[KanjiHanzi]

For me it has worked really good and I hardly forget hanzi - including how to write them.

It seems like an exchange HerrPetersen and I had here has been removed. Period. It was not really off-topic, despite the fact that I made a little joke in reply to HerrPetersen about having the thread on our own. A joke.

From my own experiences over almost ten years with Kanji studies, I think THE MORE you know, the easier it is to learn new stuff and attach that information to your existing "data base". Before I started out with adding Mandarin on top of my Japanese studies in the past, I got a lot of "warnings": Don't do that since you will forget your Japanese. I didn't and was pleasantly surprised when I checked recently: it's still there without any practice/repetitions for almost a year!

If I at all had to start all over again, I would have started with Mandarin and THEN moved on to Japanese, i.e. the other way around. Mandarin is really VERY easy when you know the Kanji, but the same applies the other way around, without the "Japanese is very easy" part: easier. What we also would get is a much better understanding of the Japanese ON-readings (derived from Chinese) and the use of phonetics.

So to return to the very first post here ...

I understand the concept of the Chinese writing system pretty well now. My problem is remembering all the characters. This is really bothersome because I can type a paragraph in Chinese but I cannot write it.

.... it can not be emphasized enough that learning as much as possible of the characters and anything related will speed up the ability to remember and also to write. Heisig discussed above is not made for every person. Etymology is "made" for every student of Kanji/Hanzi, since it's not strictly a method of LEARNING, but of UNDERSTANDING.

Two book I strongly recommend:

Cecilia Lindqvist: "China: Empire of Living Symbols (Paperback)"

This is the second most beautiful book I own. The first one is her more recent book on the Chinese instrument Qin. It's actually so gorgeous that I could EAT it :-) Not yet translated, though,

The second book is

L Weiger: "Chinese Characters"

This book was originally published in 1915, but ignoring the fact that he of course didn't use pinyin, it's still as useful today. I would even say that it's almost as useful for the student of Japanese/Kanji too.

The kind of context provided from these two excellent books will make learning characters much easier. Apart from that benefit, you will also get a better understanding of Chinese culture and history. Not bad, huh?

I will review both these books at The Kanji Hanzi Hub this or next week so this is the only notification re these in-depth-reviews in the pipeline.

Edited January 5, 2009 at 08:12 AM by KanjiHanzi
Spelling/words