Total beginner....

[Kame Sennin]

Thank you again, renzhe.

Btw, today I went to this site:

http://www.chinese-lessons.com/mandarin/skillsL1Greetings.htm

I just couldn't resist. Now I'm glad I went there.

I used the chart from that site with each sound pronounced, and I used Wikipedia to see instructions on how to pronounce the sounds.

I have had some difficulties. However, thanks to the link Hofmann posted, I was able to learn some things!

So, I was going through these 6 greetings from that page. I pronounced "nihao" as ni3hao3, but it was differing from the record. I tried saying it faster, and it was hard to pronounce 2 such sounds in succession. I checked Hofmann's link, and saw there are phonetic changes!

I also googled it and found a brief .pdf file.

Together with wikipedia, I found out that ni3 goes into ni2 (but not the standard 2nd tone which is "3->5", but a lower one, "1->4"), and hao3 (2->1->4) only has (2->1). Now it was much easier and more correct to pronounce!

(please refer to this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pinyin_Tone_Chart.svg )

I also found rules on "yi1" and "bu4", it's quite interesting. I'll learn them thoroughly when I encounter them.

So far, I can only say those 6 phrases, but that's just good! (well, I think my pronunciation is okay so far; I hope ). This was a nice introductory.

I have 1 question though...

How do you pronounce "謝謝你."

I mean, is 你 here the real 3rd tone, "2->1->4" ,

or just the half of the first tone (falling part) "2->1" ?

[Hofmann]

If 你 is at the end of a phrase, like “謝謝你。” then it's ni˨˩˦. If there's more stuff after it, like “謝謝你的幫助。” then it's ni˩.

Third tone has a mid-low to low descent; if at the end of a sentence or before a pause, it is then followed by a rising pitch. Between other tones it may simply be low.

Tones

[Kame Sennin]

Thank you for your reply, Hofmann.

So, in other words, even though "謝謝你." ends with 你, I still have to rise the tone, no matter it's the sentence end.

It's a bit strange... I guess I'll just have to get used to it.

[renzhe]

Don't try to give the whole sentence a "melody" like you do with European languages. Even when you're asking questions.

Just stick to the character tones. If it's a third tone, it's a third tone, the fact that it's the end of the sentence doesn't change this. If a third tone is alone (like here), it's pronounced like the "standard" third tone : down and up.

[Kame Sennin]

Oh, I see...

That's a really useful advice.

Thank you, renzhe.

[Lu]

I think for now you'd best first focus on getting the four tones down, and not worry yet about how they change in different sentences. That will come later. Just say xie4 xie4 ni3 with full, exaggerated tones, and practice the other tones as well, just trying to get that right should keep you busy for a few weeks. That's the groundwork. The details come later.

Good luck!

[Kame Sennin]

Thank you very much, Lu!

The tones are pretty hard. ^^;

I'm trying my best.

Just like you said, it will take several weeks to somewhat get them properly.

[Kame Sennin]

This is my attempt on reading 繁體字 .

It's generally fan2 ti3 zi4, but here "ti3" becomes only falling tone (half 3rd tone), right?

What do you think?

fantizi.mp3

[Kame Sennin]

I've also just recorded my attempt on pronouncing numbers 0-10.

Please comment.

0-10.wav

[renzhe]

I would take Lu's advice to heart. Concentrate on pronouncing tones correctly in isolation. Don't worry about advanced tone changes, they seem to be messing you up, that's why it worked much better on the numbers than on the phrase.

Pronounce each tone in its proper, canonical form. When you get that right, practice it on longer phrases and sentences. Once you have a grasp of that, spoken variations and sandhi will come much more easily and (with enough listening) almost automatically.

Your second tone (fan2) is spot on.

Your third tone (ti3) is too short. Pronounce it fully and don't try to shorten it.

Your fourth tone (zi4) starts too low and takes too long. Make it a rapid, fast descent from a very high pitch to a very low pitch. Like when your scolding a dog. "Sit!"

The numbers were very good for someone just starting and learning without any native speaker in range.

The pronunciation (other than tones) is generally really good, so pat on the back for that. I'd pronounce "er" a bit more like "ar" in this particular case, and the "sh" in "shi" can be a bit stronger (exactly like the Croatian "š"). The "i" in "shi" is silent (it sounds too much like "ee" or "ü. It should be exactly the tone you make when you don't know what to say, "eeeerrr..."). The rest is fine, including the tricky ones like "q" and "j".

The third tone needs the most work (should generally be lower and perhaps a bit faster, stressing the lowest point, if that makes sense), but this is the tone everybody struggles with.

I'm not a native speaker, so take that into account, but I hope this helps anyway. Overall, it's not bad, and fully understandable. I've met people who learned for years and still cannot be understood at all.

[Kame Sennin]

renzhe, thank you very back for your feedback!

Your comments and advices are really helpful.

Telling me what is not good really helps.

Now I know some things I should fix, and what I should concentrate on.

I'll try not to rush to much too.

謝謝.

[Hofmann]

Good work.

The majority of the 3rd tone is in the descent in pitch. Only at the very end should you rise up again, and when you rise up, it should be light. It I were to draw it, it would look something like

[Kame Sennin]

Hello, Hofmann.

Thank you for your advice, it's really useful!

I'll try to pronounce 3rd tone lighter at the end.

謝謝.

[olivortex]

HI there! i mean 您好

I've just discovered this forum, and it seems like it's the one i need. i've been reading this thread for a while, and have already learned some useful things

I consider myself as a total beginner, since i never had a real opportunity to be in a real chinese context, for instance, and i started learning my first characters and sentences this year.

It's been a cetain time now since i understood i need audio support, but i still havn't got myself any. So if you have suggesttions, i'll take notes

谢谢您 !

[imron]

Welcome to the forums. Have a read through some of these threads. You should be able to find something suitable.