Moving to China; whole change of life (advice greatly appreciated)

[joshuawbb]

I know this a rather big (very big) request for advice, but I feel it's good to gain the advice of those experienced in China - there are a lot of questions here; I have done my searching around but there are many things I can't quite get straight. I'd be very grateful for your help. This is a truly wonderful forum and I am so glad to have found you. Please bear with me, as this is a very long post

To put it as short as I can, this June I am going to China. I am 18 years old currently in the UK, in my final year of college and this would originally be the year I begin university (just to avoid a little confusion, college in the UK is not university, it is like US high school, etc). After careful consideration, I have decided to move away from my current life in the UK and I will be going to China for my university education and further life. Of course, I won't be completely away from my family (with maybe visits, lots of communication, etc), but I have made my decision.

As mentioned, I won't just be staying for a year or similar, I will be staying there for many years; hopefully to make China my home should everything go perfectly as planned. My plan is as follows:

--In June, I will move to China - I am going to Xiamen (Fujian Province, south-east coast). For the first year I will study Chinese at Xiamen Hanyu Windows Training School (Edit; now prefering a university course) to gain enough HSK qualification to enter university to take a university degree (HSK Grade C/Level 6).

--After that I plan to enter Xiamen University presuming I get in, otherwise I will find another university (after deciding together with my girlfriend). I have narrowed my degree choice to two areas: Chinese language as one choice, but not the foreigner's degree - I want to study a Chinese degree as a Chinese student would; as in the deeper study of the language, linguistics, its features its history, etc. From the advice given to me by my girlfriend, Chinese work colleague, and language teacher, this sort of degree could lead to teaching in a university, or more obviously, a career in teaching as just an English teacher.

My other path would be to study an economics-related degree although I do not have much studying experience with economics (I am currently studying English Language, Psychology, Modern War History, basic Mandarin and intermediate Japanese). I hear this career path can be financially more prosperous though.

--After that, well, time will tell I suppose I hope to stay in Xiamen and attend Xiamen University, then work in a city that both my girlfriend and I feel most comfortable in.

Which brings me to my next point - I'm sure it's best to tell you why I am doing all this First of all and most significantly, I love my girlfriend with all of my heart and I want to be with her. She currently studies in Fuzhou and will be moving to Xiamen soon if everything goes perfectly well. We have known each other for more than a year now and were very close friends until last September, when we became together as a couple.

The reason I am saying all this is that I know you might think I am just jumping into China lovestruck; I want to clear that and say that it is certainly not the case; we are both very serious about our relationship and are taking all the future into consideration. I have decided firmly - we have decided firmly that we want to be together and our future lies in China, or wherever it takes us. Ah, I truly don't mean to sound rude at all, I've just heard been told before the "how can you know each other?" and "long-distance relationships don't work" comments before and I just want others to understand that our relationship isn't like that, as we are much closer

Also, I always have had a love for China which difficult to describe and put a finger on, especially due to the massive diversity and size of China. If I just said to you "I have always been interested in China's culture, language, etc" then I'd be generalising. I have always been a person who just wants to get out and go somewhere else too, and in my mind, China is where my heart takes me to. More than just Beijing, Shanghai, etc; I have a fascination to explore China's vast land and to live there is certainly my future dream.

My family seem to be very understanding and will kindly support me throughout my time there.

By June, I hope to have saved a budget of at least £4500; hopefully more than that. That will cover my flight to Xiamen, necessities such as apartment rent, health insurance and also my language tuition fees for the first year. My parents have told me they will support me with at least £500 per month and I also hope to support myself as much as I can. I haven't written the budget in RMB, as I cannot predict the wildly changing exchange rates just yet, until they settle.

Just as a note, the online service China Service Mall has been helping me through incredibly so far; they found me my language school, organised the application.

I will be going to China most likely on an X Visa, as I will be a long-term student.

So my questions are as follows (I hope I haven't scared you all off yet with my long post):

--I have read information, horror stories included from expats, and looked up the laws regarding finding a job, but I still find conflicting information from websites, etc. I understand that to get a full-time job is completely illegal on anything but a Z visa. I am told both by China Service Mall that it's okay to find a part-time job - i.e. waiter at a restaurant, some sort of occasional language tutor, etc. So what is the bottom line regarding this? I am not a degree student; I will be gaining my degree in China. What sort of job can I legally get, and what counts as "crossing the line"?

--I have been advised to get health insurance in China after, or alongside opening a bank account. What sort of provider, plan or method could you recommend me to go through with? I should be getting the usual basic accident/emergency health insurance, and since I wear glasses preferably optical insurance too. Dental along with this would be a great extra if I can.

--I was told it's best to rent an apartment one month before I arrive, by China Service Mall (Edit: I'm no longer doing this as I don't trust it now, and my girlfriend has kindly offered to help me find an apartment) I know many of you have apartments too; in your view, what sort of apartment or price range do you think is best? I wouldn't know a particular price range, but I am not looking for anything special. Just furniture, preferably internet and a TV, and not really cramped. Preferably a double bed too. Generally something good for one person that could suit a hopefully frequent visitor too.

--Do you think I may have any problems with clothing? I am about 6 foot exactly now, slim build. I am not trying to make a stereotype, but I have just heard that clothing sizes are generally smaller than UK clothes.

--In general, do you have any advice you could give to a young person stepping into an entirely new life and surroundings? This is exactly what I want to do and I wouldn't have it any other way, but of course, it's also a little daunting to move completely away your family and country. How do you deal with culture-anxiety until it settles down?

I would be deeply, deeply thankful for your advice or knowledge; to tell the truth, I have not had the pleasure of visiting China before due to financial restraints, and obviously that is even more true now as I need to finish my savings in time to leave in June unless an opportunity to visit arises. I know this is more than a massive change to my life; I have taken that entirely into account and have thought, planned and put forward these plans for many months now. I am completely committed to it and completely committed to my girlfriend too.

Thank you very much, and I thank your patience if you've managed to read to the end of this huge post

Edited January 9, 2009 at 06:51 PM by joshuawbb

[renzhe]

I'll leave the specific China-related advice to people with more experience. Just a couple of points.

HSK Grade C, according to what I have been advised

HSK Grade C is confusing.

HSK 1-3 are sometimes referred to as HSK Basic C-A.

HSK 3-5 are sometimes referred to as HSK Elementary C-A.

HSK 6-8 are sometimes referred to as HSK Intermediate C-A.

HSK 9-11 are HSK Advanced C-A.

HSK has 11 levels. To study at a university, you need at least level 6. To study Chinese language and culture at a university, they might expect a level 8, though. So yeah, a C in HSK Intermediate is your minimum. This is not an easy level to reach, but it's doable if you are serious about it.

Ah, I truly don't mean to sound rude at all, I've just heard all the "how can you know each other?" and "long-distance relationships don't work" comments before and I just want others to understand that our relationship isn't like that.

Maybe it is, and maybe it isn't. Even the nicest ones don't always work out.

But going to China is a cool thing, not a bad thing, and it won't kill you, especially if you have a love for adventures. You seem to have considered it, made up your mind, and even if it turns out to be a mistake, it will be your mistake, and you'll get an awesome experience many people never will. Sounds like you did your homework, so go for it.

--Do you think I may have any problems with clothing? I am about 6 foot exactly now, slim build. I am not at all trying to make a stereotype, but I have just heard that clothing sizes are generally smaller than UK clothes.

It will be more difficult than in Britain, but not impossible. Get XXL for everything, that should fit your build. I'm a bit bigger than you, and the XL T-shirts I got are decidedly too small (especially after washing), but with some shopping around, you will find stuff that fits well enough. Not sure about shoes, though.

--In general, do you have any advice you could give to a young person stepping into an entirely new life and surroundings? This is exactly what I want to do and I wouldn't have it any other way, but of course, it's daunting to move completely away from the security of your family and your own country. How do you deal with the gradually settling culture-anxiety until it settles down?

Always remember to enjoy it. It will absolutely be a shock, but if you always look at the bright side of it, you'll see that the cool things far outweigh the negatives. Go with a positive attitude and enjoy the stress, the sense of being lost, confused, and out of your element. It is exciting, and when you're taking a night sleeper train and eating instant noodles with 60 other people, or hiking up some mountain straight out of a wuxia movie, it will be far more rewarding than sitting in the local pub. Have your girlfriend visit you regularly to provide some support and never forget to have fun.

I left home and went to another continent when I turned 16 and I wouldn't trade it for the world.

[Lu]

It's late, so just one piece of advice from me at this point: if you want to get out, China is imo one of the best places to go. It's definitely out, and you will have a great time, no doubt. From what I read in your post though, you have never been to China yet, so for now I think you shouldn't plan to live there forever just yet. Try first studying Chinese there for a year, that's never a bad idea, and see how you like it there, how the relationship is going (I hope well), how the studies are going, whether you and China suit each other, etc. If all goes well, then make further plans: studying for a degree, finding a job.

Renzhe said some wise things too. As to clothes, I'm a woman of 1.80m and never had much trouble finding something (Beijing, 2002-3). If you have trouble, you can always get things custom-made, it's cheap there.

Good luck, and enjoy!

[peekay]

Xiamen University requires HSK-6 ("intermediate grade C") for Chinese majors.

Student health insurance in Asia is typically very basic. Your school may require you to purchase Chinese domestic health insurance (usually for a low cost, like RMB 300 per term.)

Most people get by without any additional insurance and just take their chances. If you want/need comprehensive coverage you should look into getting international insurance from your home country at least for your first year, which includes benefits like medical evacuations if necessary. (I'm not familiar with the UK health system but in Canada most provinces provide no-cost "study abroad" coverage at least one semester.)

My advice is "just do it". Set a departure date, get your finances in order, then just go out there & adapt as you go.

[yonglin]

You may want to read a few pages on cultural shock. In particular, you'll find a curve which looks extremely silly but which is more true than you can ever imagine (honeymoon, crisis, adaptation type graph). Just look it over now and then when you start feeling pissed off about everything (after 5-6 months or so) it will hopefully pop up in your head and give some some relief.

[roddy]

Specifically answering your questions:

1) You legally can't get any job on an X visa. End of story. Realistically, plenty of people will do English tutoring, editing work, so on (restaurant work not so much - any restaurant who can afford to match what you could make teaching English can afford to hire a Chinese student with great English at a fraction of the price.)

2) Get insurance from the UK, nothing easily available in China will cover you for repatriation if necessary, which you want for peace of mind - your parents', if not your own.

3) "I was told it's best to rent an apartment one month before I arrive" Rubbish it is, and that sentence alone makes me very wary indeed of China Service Mall. Hotel or school accommodation for the first week or so, while you find something yourself - or with assistance from the school, but be wary. Plenty of schools make as much, or even more, money on overpriced accommodation as they do on tuition fees. Costs for Xiamen I don't know.

4) You might need to look hard, but you'll manage. Do bring clothes though.

5) Good luck. Do watch out for culture shock.

More general advice:

Given you're set on going to a Chinese university, and studying Chinese for the first year, I would just go direct to a university to study Chinese and skip the training center. That'll give you a feel for on campus life and you can start to make some contacts. I also suspect it'll be cheaper, but as I can't find any information on your training school (which frankly I don't find reassuring - what have you been told?) I can't be sure.

Don't automatically trust any middleman or agency. The whole sector in China is too disorganized, and I don't care how efficient and helpful they seem - check their prices against what it would cost to do things yourself. This is double-true when finances are an issue. When it comes to accommodation, if China Services Mall or whoever don't have someone on the ground in Xiamen, you'll likely end up paying for the middleman's middleman. You've got the time and motivation to do the research yourself, you're hoping to keep costs down - I can't see why you're not doing this independently. Particularly if there's a Chinese girlfriend to assist.

As I say, good luck. I look forward to progress reports . . .

[imron]

-I was told it's best to rent an apartment one month before I arrive,

WTF? Sounds like a good waste of one month's rent to me. Don't rent anything before you arrive and have the chance to see the place yourself, and decide that it is both suitable to live in, and conveniently located to where you will be studying. Good rule of thumb when you're a stranger in a strange land - don't pay anything in advance if you can help it, and you're less likely to be ripped off. Plan to stay in a hotel or the student dormitories for the first week or two - perhaps even arriving a week earlier than planned if necessary, and sorting out accommodation from there.

[heifeng]

1) don't forget SHOES!

2) listen to all the advice already listed above.

[gato]

Not sure about shoes, though.

Shoes above size 44 for men are very hard to find. Maybe impossible, since I haven't found them in Shanghai.

[imron]

I can usually buy size 46 without too much hunting, both in Beijing and in Nandaihe/Qinhuangdao where I used to live.

[Hanlink]

All I can say is that since you are doing your homework and checking, you're not going to be completely duped when you get to China, but watch out...

The whole monthly rental should be ringing loud bells that a rip-off is in the making. A good adventure when you are young is great for the soul, but do keep your expectations real especially with the girl-friend (and certainly if, in the build-up, there has been more internet involved than anything else).

If the University offers basic Mandarin courses, which it does, why not just go straight there - that's an easy check - it will be cheaper, the accommodation will be taken care of and you will know what you are letting yourself in for. But, purely from a language learning point of view, Xiamen is definitely NOT the place to begin.

It sounds like you need to do a lot more checking with phone calls, I would suggest, direct to Xiamen University (a term there before throwing yourself onto Chinese society sounds much more 'safe'). Your homework is only half-done.

Good luck!

[simonlaing]

From friends,

They say Xiamen is a little more expensive to live than most 2nd tier cities, but not as much as Shanghai or Hong Kong.

Advice on seeing the apartment before you rent it is good.

Being 18 and taking this big step is either bold or foolhardy but as others have said keep your options open. Things may change once you get there. (i.e. parents disapprove, you break up, find you have issues with chinese food, you never know).

Also on Feasibility issues :- Getting from basic to HSK Level 6 will be hard to do in 1 year. For most people it takes 2 years at a chinese university ( and that is without having a life). In a western uni perhaps 4 years if you're lucky.

Being 18 with no BA degree some of your part time jobs for teaching English will be restricted. (sometimes they like people you age to teach elementary age students which is tiring though rewarding.)

For the first 3 months be stingy with your money and learn to be cheap. It is much easier from being cheap to being spend thrift that the other way around.

Make sure you set aside time for studying everyday. It is easy to schedule ENglish classes and social activities for the rest of the day.

Realize most Chinese people live with their parents until they get married to someone else so you may treated with extra oversight... Your girlfriend might be restricted to her dorm at night and can't stay at your place.

Take a significant amount of money with you as apartments rent usually require 6 months in advance payment. You may be able to find person share the flat/apartment with you at the university.

Take care, and ask us when you encounter the inevitable issues that will come up.

Good luck,

Simon:)

[Lugubert]

Always remember to enjoy it. It will absolutely be a shock, but if you always look at the bright side of it, you'll see that the cool things far outweigh the negatives. Go with a positive attitude and enjoy the stress, the sense of being lost, confused, and out of your element. It is exciting, and when you're taking a night sleeper train and eating instant noodles with 60 other people, or hiking up some mountain straight out of a wuxia movie, it will be far more rewarding than sitting in the local pub.

Spot on. At 65, i.e. last year, I traveled China for a month. Rather cheating, I was accompanied by a friend who acted as my personal interpreter, organizer, haggler etc. My experience confirmed that despite a few successful university semesters that concentrated on translation from Chinese, I was rather helpless on my own.

I wasn't too fond of night trains (but enjoyed them immensely more than their Indian counterparts). I got soaking wet climbing Huang Shan, and the many thousands of steps were'nt exactly tailored to my shoe size. Those experiences did not scare me too much, though.

I'm now trying to find a way to organize my next long, solo, trip. It may include finding an extremely patient private teacher in Chengdu: for example a young, pretty girl fluent in English, or a seasoned elderly lady who unhurriedly understands that this lao wai won't learn 20 new Hanzi in a day (or even week) and will insist on having me repeat a phrase using the correct tones before leaving the sentence.

You're young. You'll make it. You'll enjoy it. But I'm fairly certain that it won't turn out like you ever imagined.

[joshuawbb]

Wow, thank you so much for your amazingly informative replies...

I really appreciate your input; from reading the replies here I also realise there is a lot I may have missed or gotten a little wrong. I'll answer through the replies in order here

Extremely long reply here, I hope I'm not turning your eyes square...

@Renzhe

Thank you - I see now and I wrote the wrong thing - as you said, it should be HSK Level 6. I am very determined to reach it and I hope I can do that. Thank you for your advice, and especially for the clothing I had a feeling I would have to go for XXL, haha. I have considered it for what I feel has been a long time - long enough to have a broad enough view of what I am planning to do, and to prepare. How was your experience with leaving your continent at 16 - did you go to China?

@Lu

Thank you; China has certainly been a dream to me for most of my life, and I'm hoping to enjoy it as much as possible. I have it fixed in my mind that I want to stay there and open my career there should everything go as planned. Our relationship is going very well, thank you; my girlfriend told me today that she would very kindly help me with preparation, and help me find a suitable apartment. Ah, did you have some clothes custom-made while you were in Beijing? (though from your post I presume you managed fine to find your clothes)

@peekay

From your post and others I think I will look for health insurance here instead; I didn't know health insurance was offered long term for far international stay before, so perhaps it's more suitable, thank you. I think I'd rather take the insurance rather than risk my chances

@yonglin

I agree; though I haven't experienced culture shock before I'm rather familiar with it; it can certainly take some unexpected (to yourself) turns. Though it was not possible anyway due to financial restraints, I wish I could have travelled a little more - apart from visits in Europe, I have visited Japan once though. The pages here (one in particular, I can't quite recall its name) on culture shock are very informative.

@roddy

I really appreciate all your information - and for waking me up a little for what I've missed - or been misinformed.

I was rather afraid but expecting the illegality of finding a job on an X visa - though as you said too, people tend to take small jobs. But how "risky" is this? Though I may be able to rely well on my parent's support as well as my initial savings, I would be far more comfortable at least putting something aside. Would you recommend finding work, even though it is technically illegal? One thing I would feel very uncomfortable with is going through with starting my life in China - and then becoming an illegal immigrant from year 1.

Thank you for telling me about the highly unusual advice from China Service Mall; my girlfriend said to me today that she would sweetly help me with finding an apartment and would go through that with me, so I won't rely on CSM for the apartment. Regarding CSM, and for the record, they don't seem to be charging me any money for their services (obviously they could add anything to costs for tuition, apartment, etc that they offer to go through with instead of me). At the moment, they do not know my personal details apart from my name, date of birth, nationality and tel. number.

I suppose I've always thought of that as a little strange - and so far I have not received any obligations or nags to pay a service fee. Furthermore, the person in CSM I am currently corresponding with leaves her replies closed - as in "please don't hesitate to contact me if you need more assistance". But something I did notice was they gave me a strange price for my tuition fees for the language school:

When I asked for a quote, they told me that for 4 hours teaching per day, 5 days per week for about one year would come to about RMB24000, but when I phoned the school myself, for the same programme I was told the cost would be RMB18000. CSM told me that the price difference was some sort of long-term student discount from their full term price (?), and also a way of providing a little financial support by giving a discount. I don't really understand the logic of that; what do you think?

To tell the truth, I would much prefer to study Chinese as a course in a university, but I was told (by CSM also) that I couldn't achieve HSK Level 6 in one year that way - it was explained to me as possible:

-According to what they told me, universities cannot teach me more than 2 hours per day, therefore not providing enough tuition to gain the qualification in a year.

-Apparently training schools can be more flexible - tutoring for 4 hours a day intensively and therefore allowing me to gain the qualification in one year, providing I am very committed to studying.

As for information regarding the training school, I can't find a website and I don't think there even is one. I was given these contact details:

Xiamen Hanyu Windows Training School

Tel: 0086-592—5811122

Email: hanyuwindows@yahoo.cn

I was also given the teacher's mobile number, and the second time I called, an American student who had finished her course there went through everything with me (presumably due to the teacher's difficulty in understanding all my English).

From your post, I see there are plenty of things I have been misinformed, therefore I'll be wary of CSM from now - actually, I guess it's safer to go independent; together with my girlfriend.

Once again, thank you very much for your information

@imron

Thank you; agreed especially from roddy's post too - as I mentioned just previously, my girlfriend told me she'd guide me through the apartment process. Actually, she mentioned to me too that there is a good chance of me being ripped off myself.

@Heifeng

I have some shoes and trainers at the moment; will probably be replaced before I go to China, but yes - shoe size would certainly be important for me. Thanks, I didn't take that into account before.

@gato/imron

I'm a UK 11 (45), so I suppose I'll bring my own shoes along should they become difficult to find

@Hanlink

Yes, I'll certainly be watching out in China. I feel truly that my girlfriend and I have a very real and serious relationship - though of course, I take in what you said. It's been a variety of methods: phone, webcam/QQ, email, letters and gifts.

I know that there might be more suitable places to study Chinese, but in selecting Xiamen (or possibly Fuzhou for that matter) is not to deliberately reduce my options. Apart from being attracted by the city itself, my girlfriend is studying in Fuzhou and will be soon going to Xiamen if everything goes perfectly well, so we're considering both our futures. To be honest, it'd take the life out of my life to go elsewhere.

I will be contacting Xiamen University, Fuzhou University, Fujian Normal University and other potential universities to see if they have the Mandarin course described here - especially from reading other people's recommendations.

@simonlaing

From what my girlfriend said to me, Xiamen tends to have quite a low living cost (though I wouldn't know the comparison between Shanghai and Hong Kong) - from her knowledge + people she knows, a person can live comfortably, on about RMB3000 per month, rent included, provided you save your money well. Though of course I have the extras of tuition fees to pay, that would be potentially very comfortable for me.

Any sort of job, basic or not would be fine for me providing I'm not of course being taken advantage of by the employer, etc. I just need to gain something on the side if I can.

Thank you for your kind advice

@Lugubert

Thank you very much for sharing your experience; sorry to hear of the difficulties you faced then, but it sounds like it was a great and more than a learning experience for you too. As you said, I'm sure I'll find it the biggest learning experience of my life.

Thank you once again; I'll make sure to enjoy the unexpected times

Edited January 9, 2009 at 07:03 PM by joshuawbb

[roddy]

If you're unsure about working, then plan not to and reevaluate when you get here. It's the best part of a year before you'd even get here, and by then the Chinese government may have released regulations saying all foreign students can work a certain number of hours per week, or they may have started shooting us on sight. Wait and see. All I'll say is that you were asking now I'd say go for it, but if possible keep it to private arrangements with individuals, rather than working through a school / agency.

As for China Services Mall - China's a different country, but the usual rules of physics and economics apply. What do YOU think the extra RMB6,000 is? The fact that they tried to present that as a discount rather than just saying 'yes, that's our cut' is laughable.

Universities usually teach four hours a day. HSK 6 in a year at a university could well be a push, but I'd say it's doable. You can spend some of the money you'd save on private tutors, skipping the less useful classes to meet them if necessary. At the very least take another longer look at the options available.

[Lu]

Xiamen University must have a course for Chinese for foreigners, my youngest brother studied there for a bit. There are probably better places to study, but Xiamen is also fine, I'd think.

I'm also quite sure universities can teach for more than 2 hours/day, unless that has changed since I studied in China. I had 4 hours of classes a day, and more is probably also possible. Plus you can always find a tutor if the classes aren't enough for you.

As to working, what roddy said is wise: it sounds like you have enough money for the time being, so just start with studying (also, the more you study and the less you teach English, the better for your Chinese) and make a more informed decision later on.

I didn't have clothes made myself, but I know others do.

[lilongyue]

Not much I can add to this, but to remind you to be adaptable. Regardless of how much you plan, unexpected things will come up.

[simonlaing]

Universities usually teach four hours a day. HSK 6 in a year at a university could well be a push, but I'd say it's doable. You can spend some of the money you'd save on private tutors, skipping the less useful classes to meet them if necessary. At the very least take another longer look at the options available.

could well be a push

Hehe, Roddy has a great sense of understatement.

Sort of like becoming a world class triathlon runner-swimmer-cyclist in a year could well be a push but it is possible.

Or learning nuclear physics in a year might be difficult but it is possible.

There are some things that will be easy-

Living in a moderately priced city as a student - > Easy

Hanging out with a hot girlfriend in an off campus appartment who will help you with Chinese ->

Dealing with culture shock in a city of young people and a culture of providing hospitality to guests (aka foreigners) -> easy

Finding Chinese and international friends on campus or among the the school teachers ->easy

Even finding an illegal part-time job that pays you cash at the end of each class or week -> easy

Enrolling in the university to take Chinese lanugage classes, finding an apartment with your girlfriend. ->relatively easy.

But

Learning Chinese to a HSK Level 6 in one year without studying before-> damn hard, (even for that genius that learned 8 languages before learning Chinese.)

Controlling yourself to study 4-6 hours on top of the 4 hours of class work, when there are distractions of hot girlfriends, and interesting cheap stuff to do. -> hard as well.

I think I would have appreciated someone laying it out to me what learning Chinese was before I invested so much time and life choices in it.

Anyway, Good luck what ever you choose.

I am expecting a retort from Roddy on how few months it took him to learn Chinese to a fluent level.

Good Luck,

Simon:)

[roddy]

Not me, muyongshi's friend

I'm certainly not saying it would be easy, just that it is doable. In terms of overall Chinese skills it might not even be advisable, as you'd end up focusing on reading and listening way more than speaking. But Simon's right, don't underestimate the time and commitment it's going to take, and 'a push' didn't really reflect what it'll take. The HSK folk reckon the elementary / intermediate exam is suitable for those with between 400-2000 hours of study. How many hours can you do in a year?

For reference, I think I got an HSK 6 after 2.5 years of part-time study while I was teaching.

Edit: And actually taking into account you could be talking about only a full academic year, and the HSK dates, it's probably even harder.

[renzhe]

I think it's doable, but damn hard, and you will need a lot of perseverance to achieve that.

You're looking at learning about 1500-2000 single characters and about 4000 vocabulary items in under a year, and being able to read and use them in context. And since no course is designed to take you from zero to HSK6 in two semesters, you'd be doing most of the studying on your own.