Moving to China; whole change of life (advice greatly appreciated)

[lilongyue]

Another factor to consider in how long it will take you to reach your desired level of Chinese, besides the difficulty of the language, is the quality of education in Mainland China. I busted my ass studying for three semesters, and that gave me a good enough foundation to feel comfortable studying on my own for a while. I haven't taken the HSK, and so don't know what level I'm at, but a classmate of mine went to Taiwan to continue studying Chinese language, and said there is a big difference in the quality of education. I can still use more structured learning of Chinese, and am leaving for Taiwan on Friday. I plan to continue studying Chinese in Taiwan, as one and a half years of full-time study wasn't enough. I studied at what is supposed to be the number three school in China, and only one of my four teachers was a professional. The rest were still students who obviously had no idea what it meant to be a foreigner learning Chinese, and this reflected in their teaching. After my first semester, I stopped going to every class but grammar, did my own reading and listening practice, and ended up with a higher reading, listening and spoken level than most in my class. In other words, the only class that was worth my time was the grammar class. I don't think most universities in China will allow you to only pay for the grammar class. That was certainly the case at my Uni. I was told you pay for all of them, and whether or not you attend the classes is up to you. They were willing to place me in higher oral, listening and reading classes, but I decided against it.

Since you're planning on attending real uni after learning Chinese, you should probably learning something about the overall education style in China. After first teaching English in China, and then studying Chinese in China, I think I have a feeling for how the Chinese approach education, or at least language education. It's quite a bit different than in the West. I don't think I could handle being part of an undergraduate program in China. Their general philosophy is "more is better." As you progress in Chinese language classes, they just keep piling on more and more vocabulary and grammar, don't really take the time to properly review what you learned before. They see progress in terms of how much material you've covered, regardless of how well the students have assimilated or integrated the information. If Chinese undergraduate programs are the same, then you may have problems while studying for your Bachelors. Rote memorization is also the general rule in Chinese education. Inquiry doesn't seem to be very important, so expect to be doing a lot of regurgitating of information. Try to get in touch with foreigners who have gone through an undergraduate program in China.

Chinese education theory is quite far behind the West, as would be expected from a developing country. I don't think China has any Unis in the top 100 universities in the world. If you follow through with this, and eventually leave China (something you shouldn't totally write off as a possibility, as you don't really know what the future holds), don't expect other higher education systems abroad to be impressed by your degree from a Chinese uni. They may be impressed that you, as a foreigner, did they whole thing in Chinese, though. If you do major in something language related, that will work in your favor, but almost any other major won't count as much in a Western country as the same degree from a British university.

You should also consider what kind of work you're going to qualify for with a degree in something language related. Unless you're willing to live off of a Chinese wage, the work opportunities for foreigners aren't that good. Most of the good paying, non-teaching jobs available to foreigners are high-level management, or engineering related, and are all somehow related to manufacturing and import/export. At least that was the case when China's economic growth seemed to be unstoppable. I read that of the Chinese factories that have been able to make it so far without shutting down, many are going to focus more on local markets, not international ones. In other words, they will need foreign employees even less than before. All predictions forecast a continued slowing of China's economy, and with 70,000 plus factories already shut down, the import/export and manufacturing sectors of China's work place may not be the route you want to take. So, where does that leave a foreigner with a degree in some linguistics related field? It sounds like you'll be in the same situation you'd be in back in your home country, if you had a humanities related degree, namely either teaching, or working in WacArnolds. If you're limited to teaching, your wage as an English teacher will probably be higher than a normal Chinese professor's wage. I'm not trying to discourage you from your dream, but giving you some food for thought.

Living abroad, especially in a country as different as China is from your home country, can be very challenging. Since you don't have any experience, I wouldn't rule out the possibility of you returning to England one day, and so you should factor that into your plan accordingly. I've been living in Asia for 6 years, and others on this forum have been abroad as long ( or longer) than me, but people like us are, in fact, the minority. Most foreigners don't make it very long in China, maybe two or three years, at most. Of course, some never planned on settling down in China, but if the challenges of living in China weren't so great, I bet there would be a lot more long-timers here.

Good luck pursuing your dream. I wish you all the best.

[heifeng]

WacArnolds! hahahaha...nice..need to check out the WacArnolds Remix on Youtube:mrgreen:

[renzhe]

I don't think China has any Unis in the top 100 universities in the world.

You are right.

Qinghua is around 150, and Nanda, Beida, Jiaotong, Zhejiang and USTC are around 200-300 (very many ties around this level).

Regarding Taiwan, Natl. Taiwan Uni is tied with Qinghua.

The Hong-Kong based Chinese University, City University, HK University and SciTech are all in the 200-300 range.

These are the 2007 rankings provided by Shanghai Jiaotong University. They are probably not perfect, but their methodology is transparent, and it's the most respected worldwide ranking scheme that I'm aware of.

Keep in mind that their ranking is research-heavy, if they were actually measuring the amount of knowledge the students acquire during undergraduate studies, I'd expect more European universities.

[joshuawbb]

Thank you very much everyone for your excellent posts, input and insight again!

I just want to say that I will reply personally again to everyone tomorrow (edit: as soon as I can); I've been absent for a little while due to a college exam I've just taken today (13/1 in the UK, as it's 11:10pm here as of this moment).

My girlfriend and I have been talking a lot about the university courses of Chinese instead of the training school, and she has been wonderfully kind to call them all to find out about the course details for me

About the HSK timescale, thank you for telling me your experiences - China Service Mall said it was even doable in 7-8 months (certainly a different estimate than your descriptions here), so it looks like there are quite a few things they told me that I should get better information about.

Edited January 16, 2009 at 12:35 AM by joshuawbb

[Hanlink]

Before HSK exams and when the Beijing Language Institute was the first pitstop for anyone wanting to study Chinese before moving onto proper university courses in medicine, physics, engineering etc, students took a 1-year intensive language course prior to moving to full university. In the first term, it was a basic language course (survival chinese and then some) then from the second term the students concentrated on the vocabulary needed for their different courses at university. It would have been impossible for anyone to try from that base to take a linguistics or literature type degree. All students were swamped, and all students continued to need language help and remedial lessons in their first 1-2 years of their proper university courses. Most of the students who took these courses were Arabs and Africans, who received scholarships from the Chinese government. I do not know anything about HSK, but having gone through the local Chinese University system for Chinese language/literature, you cannot do it without a strong founding in the language, a very wide vocabulary and very high character recognition and understanding - and then, you will be competing against the very best local students on their own turf...!

[lilongyue]

Quote:

I don't think China has any Unis in the top 100 universities in the world.

You are right.

Qinghua is around 150, and Nanda, Beida, Jiaotong, Zhejiang and USTC are around 200-300 (very many ties around this level).

Regarding Taiwan, Natl. Taiwan Uni is tied with Qinghua.

The Hong-Kong based Chinese University, City University, HK University and SciTech are all in the 200-300 range.

These are the 2007 rankings provided by Shanghai Jiaotong University. They are probably not perfect, but their methodology is transparent, and it's the most respected worldwide ranking scheme that I'm aware of.

Keep in mind that their ranking is research-heavy, if they were actually measuring the amount of knowledge the students acquire during undergraduate studies, I'd expect more European universities.

To clarify, I was only referring to quality of Chinese language education. I would tell the OP to think carefully about entering an undergraduate program in Taiwan, too.

[roddy]

So Joshua, you should have been here for a few days by now - how's it going ?

[joshuawbb]

Hi again, sorry it's taken me so long to reply as I've just gotten the internet set up in my apartment

It's been going overall very well - certainly some interesting experiences. I have quite a lot to write about; for example when I arrived out of the warm plane into a hotter Xiamen airport, the quarantine inspecters felt my temperature was about 0.7 degrees too high, so I was sent to a hospital and quarantined for a while. Maybe I should make a topic about that, if anyone else has an experience or ends up in the same position.

I have to say, my girlfriend has helped me endlessly and I'll be doing something big soon to thank her. I'll explain things in more detail a bit later when I've got good free time, and I want to say thank you all again for your support

[kadijah]

I am a California native and I am considering moving to china with my children for the sole purpose of learning Mandarin. My children (2) are in elementary and have had about 3 years of Mandarin instruction but have had limited progress since we do not speak it at home.One of their instructors advised that a 2 yr stay in China while attending a public school would make them fluent. We visited Hong Kong over the summer.They enjoyed themselves very much. I am just not sure where to start for a "move". I am going to be financially supported from my family here in the US but would like to work while they are in school (to make extra money). I do not have a degree to teach but I was a pediatric nurse although I have not practiced for about 10 yrs. For the most part I have been a stay at home mom and I make extra money in Art design for television and film. We've traveled to many countries but never stayed in any one of them for more than a month or two. Anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks