Post a sample of your pronunciation here!

[Silent]

@renzhe Thanks for the great and extensive reply. This is something I can work with.

I wouldn't bother too much about the cause of my imperfections. Langdu, prosody, taiwanese materials.... I think the main reason is negligence:) I've mainly focused on reading. Vocalising the characters while reading I was at least sloppy. In anki it's mainly individual words. I read along with the audiofiles from Chinese breeze, slow chinese etc. but I feel this has had little effect on pronunciation or comprehensionrate of audio only.

Comparing sound clips can be tricky as I often have a hard time hearing tones properly. Sometimes I don't even hear a difference when my languagepartner tries to make clear how sounds differ (b/p is the main one). Your suggestion however made me zoom in on the audio. The result is amazing. By focusing on only a short sample and looping it I hear a lot more. Tones are much easier to pick out and words that seemed to be missing before come out. I think this is far more beneficial for learning then pitching down the speed as I did before. I'll incorperate this in my daily routine.

[imron]

I've found splitting audio into bite-sized pieces and then building up gradually to larger and larger pieces to be a really effective way to practice many aspects of Chinese, including both speaking and listening.

[imron]

@renzhe, overall not a bad effort, but I thought I'd just point out some things I noticed that I think can be improved upon Firstly, just a couple of small things related to initials and finals.

Your -ui final sounds a lot like 'way', e.g. at 0:02 - 最 and 0:11 - 随, especially this last one sounds like you are saying 'sway', whereas I think it needs a bit more 'ee' at the end (more like swee').

Also, sometimes your 'h' initial seems to be too soft or even go missing, e.g. at 0:13 - the 很 in 真的是很给力啊 seems to be missing the 'h' entirely.

Then there's the occasional phrasing problem, and pauses that break the flow of things. Not sure if this is just an artefact of reading, but note for example right at the end at 1:23 - the pause between 传播 and 开来. Often when you have a modifier such as 开来, 起来 etc it needs to be tightly connected to the verb preceding it.

These are not the biggest problem though. The biggest thing that I think contributes to the foreign sounding accent you mentioned in your other thread is tones. It's not that you're making tone mistakes as such (you aren't making many), but rather that the relative pitch of the tones in relation to each other is off, e.g. your first tones are really high, but then your second and fourth tones, which should be finishing and starting at this same height respectively, get nowhere near this level (I find at times I have the same problem). See the pinyin tone contour chart here, and note that the first, second and fourth tones are all at 'level 5' at some point, which is something you are not doing in your speech. It's like your first tones are getting to 'level 6' and your second and fourth tones are only getting to 'level 4'.

For example at 0:17 the 方 in 北方的方言, is really high, but then at 0:25 the 但 in 但是 starts at nowhere near that height before falling.

Another really obvious place is at 0:29 则要归功于… Compare the tonal range of your second and fourth tones in 则要 with the tonal range of your first tone in 归功, and they are not coming close enough to each other.

I would work on trying to bring down your first tone a little bit, and bring up the end of your second tone and the start of your fourth tone, and it will start to sound a lot better.

Finally, as you mentioned, it's easy to criticise others, so here's my attempt:

imron-geili.mp3

[renzhe]

Thanks a lot for the detailed response, imron! It's exactly what I need and I was hoping somebody would post something this informative.

With -ui, I noticed for the first time that it sounds wrong after recording myself the other day. Then, trying to correct it, I apparently made a total mess of it. Something I need to practice. Something similar happens with -ang, -ü, and other tricky finals for me.

The phrasing problems are partly losing flow while reading (the very end) and partly that I don't have a good feeling for how to group them. I really need to work with native recordings more often to get the feel for how to group things together. I think that this month will be langdu time.

About tones, you're absolutely right. Actually, it is a case of hypercorrection that went out of control. Trying to correct for my very narrow tonal range (a bad habit I acquired over the years), I seem to have overcorrected the first tone and lost track of the second. I also have a tendency to start the fourth tone wherever, and just go down, it seems to still be there. Very important information.

[imron]

And the fourth too. Don't forget it needs to start high also (this has been one of my big problems especially with words like 在).

[jkhsu]

@imron: Great read. If I didn't know it was your recording, I'd think it's from a native speaker from Beijing. The only mistakes I heard were:

1. The 挺 in "用法也挺简单的" sounded more like the first tone instead of the third tone.

2. Your reading of "传播开来" seems off. The 传 sounded like the first tone instead of the second and the 开 seems a bit shortened.

Again, take my comments with a grain of salt. Hope it's helpful though.

[gato]

@imron

Good job. On the micro-level, I had to listen pretty carefully to find problems.

On the macro level, there is some issue with fluidity and stress. You may have intentionally read every character clearly and at nearly the same pace, but that may have made it sound more foreign. See if you can record a version with a more natural pacing (like if you were reading a story). It also seems that the stress is too uniform on every word. In a more "natural" reading, some words would be given more stress than others. For example, in "最流行的网络词语应该就是", I would stress "最流行的“ and “应该” more than the other words. I would also divide the phrase into two segments and pause slightly before "应该". It's not really a pronunciation issue, but a rhythm issue.

I've noted below the few places where I heard a tone or pronunciation issue:

现在，最流行的网络词语应该就是“给力”了，这个词的意思不难理解，用法也挺(sounds like 1st tone instead of 3rd)简单的，现在在中国几乎随处可见，真的是很给力啊。

“给力”这个词据说是北方的方言，意思就是：很爽，让人振奋或让人感到力量。但是它之所以突然流行起来，则要归功于一部日本搞笑动画《西游记：旅程的终点》。有兴趣的读者(sounds like 2nd tone instead of 3rd)可以在网上搜索一下。这部动画片其实没有什么严肃的内容，它的中文配音非常搞笑，使用了很多网络语言以及方言。片子中，当唐僧和徒弟来到旅程终点天竺的时候，发现什么都没有，只有一面小旗子，写着“天竺”两个字。于是，孙悟空就感到很失望，说：“这就是天竺吗？不给力啊……”于是(于sounds like "yi", should also be a stress on 于)，“给力”这个词就在网络上传播开(sounds like 3rd tone instead of 1st)来。

[imron]

You may have intentionally read every character clearly and at nearly the same pace

Thanks for the feedback. This is probably caused by doing too much silent reading and trying to boost reading speed, and not enough langdu...

[calibre2001]

I think the 传播 开来 seems tricky for us learners to get it right!

Here's my take on this recording where I get tired, sloppy towards the end and start using 給力啊 instead.

Appreciate some feedback on where I need improvement.

Untitled (77).wma

[poleag]

Hey guys. I just recorded the 给力 passage. Do your worst.

EDIT: Uploading the file would probably help, wouldn't it?poleag-geli.mp3

[jkhsu]

@calibre2001

From a first listen, it sounds like you have a Cantonese or southern accent. In general, your "sh", "zh" and "ch" sounds like "s", "z", and "c" respectively. But then again, this is not uncommon among many native Chinese.

Some more specific points:

1. Your "x" sounds in "现" and "行" in the sentence "现在，最流行的网络...", and "西" in "一个东西" all have too much of an "s" sound. You do have it correct in other places though. Listen to your "现" in "发现什么都没有" and your "笑" in "它的中文配音非常搞笑". In my opinion, you have the "x" sounds correct in both of those cases. Note that in your 笑, you used more of a 1st tone instead of a 4th tone.

2. Your "乎" in "几乎随处可见几" needs to have a more distinct "hu" sound.

3. The "ch" sound of "处" in "几乎随处可见几" is not there.

4. The "词" in “给力这个词" needs more emphasis on the "c"

5. The "读" in "有兴趣的读者" should be "du" but yours sounds like "tu"

6. The "片" in "片子中" should be "pian" but yours sounds like "bian"

BTW, your "传播开来" sounds great. It seems like you need more practice getting the consonant initials right.

Edit: Per renzhe's comment, I've removed the "You just need more of the "zh" in 传" because there is no "zh" in 传.

[renzhe]

I am very impressed by imron's rendition. I don't want to 班门弄斧, but knowing that imron 老师 only reached his level by being very picky, I'll just add two very little comments. The first is the -o final in bo (1:12), which seems too much like an "o", it should open a bit towards the end, if you know what I mean. I guess the same applies to "huo" at 1:21, which sounds like "ho". The second one is that "du" in 读者 (34") sounds weird, but this is probably a one-off.

@calibre, I agree with most of jkhsu's points (except the fact that there is no "zh" in 传播). There is interference between non-retroflex and retroflex pairs (c/ch and the like), and you are not consistent with aspiration (b/p and t/d pairs). Both ways. Be careful with tones, you often mess them up even though you know them: 给力 (20"), 意思 (24") 振奋 and 或 (27") etc. There was a wrong 日本 in there somewhere, but only once. I think that the advice imron gave me about tones also applies to you.

@poleag: not bad, especially the pronunciation of initials and finals. "o" in 用 and 中 should have a more closed sound, something like [ʊŋ], yours sounds more like [ɔŋ]. Also, your dao sounds weird. Otherwise very good. But the tones are often wrong, you should concentrate on them more, some examples: 最 (4) 流行 (22) 不难 (42), etc.

[jkhsu]

I agree with most of jkhsu's points (except the fact that there is no "zh" in 传播).

Yikes. Thanks renzhe for the correction. There is no "zh" in 传! I'll edit my post.

[yonglin]

I'm really not the right person to criticize anyone's tones, but @poleag, I think that you might have a tendency to rise at the end of a phrase, e.g., the 的 in 用法挺简单的, the 画 in 搞笑动画, which is quite noticeable. My impression is that Chinese sentence contours are quite "flat" compared to many other languages. Otherwise, I think it's quite good, very understandable.

Given that I happen to have a lot of time at my hands at the moment, I'll come out of the closet too! (I also liked this text a lot more than the previous ones...)

yonglin-geili.mp3

[David Wong]

@yonglin please don't take this the wrong way but I like the sound of your voice. To remain on topic, I feel at times you could make the initial "g" consonant just a little harder.

[jkhsu]

@yonglin:

Overall, a really good read. Most of the improvements involve figuring out where to pause and getting the tones right. In my opinion, it's pretty hard to get the tones right all the time unless you're talking to native speakers on a daily basis. Here's a breakdown of where I heard some mistakes:

1. When you said "现在在中国" you didn't pause after "现在". A slight pause after "现在" would make this sentence easier to understand.

2. When you said "让人振奋", you took a bit of a break after "让人". You should say it without the break. You did this correctly in "让人感到力量". One way to improve is to read the phrase (in your mind) ahead of time before you say it. Also, as David said, the "感" in that sentence could be read with a stronger "g" sound.

3. The "行" in "突然流行起来" should be a 2nd tone but yours sounds like a 4th tone

4. When you read the "日" in "一部日本搞笑动画", you had the "r" sound a bit long. Also, when you read "搞笑动画", you paused after "搞笑". Again, to fix this, read ahead.

5. The "以" in "使用了很多网络语言以及方言" should be a 3rd tone but yours sounds like a 4th tone.

6. The "旗" in "只有一面小旗子" should be a 2nd tone but yours sounds like a 4th tone.

7. The "就" in 孙悟空就感到很失望 should be a 4th tone but yours sounds like a 2nd tone.

8. Your reading of "传" in "传播开来" sounds like "chuon" instead of "chuan". I didn't hear the "an" ending. Also, your "传" sounded like a 1st tone instead of a 2nd tone.

[Kenny同志]

Here’s my recording of a piece of English, the first passage of the preface of The Private Papers of Henry Ryecroft.

请诸位多多指教。

I would really appreciate it if someone could record this piece for me to compare with (by the way, can I say “compare against”).

Sound clip 100.amr

[马盖云]

Kenny,

here you go. Let me know if you want more than just the preface that you read, I could do some more.

My reading sounds fast to me when I listened back. But I guess that will just be payback for all the too-fast Chinese I have tried to listen to the last two years! :-)

Hope this helps,

马

Henry_Ryecroft.MP3

[yonglin]

@David Wong: You're quite the creep.

@jkhsu: Thank you, I very much appreciate it. Getting the tones right in sentences is my number-one always-and-ever difficulty in learning Chinese (I doubt I'm the only learner feeling this way, though...)

@kenny2006woo (Disclaimer: neither a native speaker nor an English teacher --- sure there are a bunch of both on here!).

Sometimes the "k" of "x" is dropped: e.g., text --> test, exercise --> essercise

Sometimes the "L" sounds are too "thick" / close to "r": e.g., called --> card, volume --> vo'hume, needful --> need for.

In my ears, an allusion to sounds a great deal like "and alluding to". I think the "sh" sound might be too soft.

The second syllable in account seems to be "swallowed", as is the second syllable of however. Periodicals sounds like periodics (but maybe this is a misread rather than mispronunciation?).

Also, preface, suffice and discretion are mispronounced (refer to 马's excellent recording!), but I'm willing to bet this is more a matter of you not being aware how they're supposed to be pronounced.

[Kenny同志]

Gaiyun, really appreciate your help. Nice recording, except being a bit too fast.

I compared your reading with mine and spotted a few words that I mispronounced, most as Yonglin pointed out. Thank you, Yonglin.

Anyway, I did the same text again. I know the recording is still not quite perfect so I will need to do more exercises.

PS:

Gaiyun, my following exercises will be the remaining passages in the preface. Thanks for your offer to help. ：）

Henry Ryecroft 2.amr

給力.amr