Macbook vs. PC in China

[randall_flagg]

Were you also told that only Apple computers have the Internet?

Do they? Do they? Do they? OK, I see your point....guess I shouldn't be so gullible.

Gato, not sure really. When I lifted it up in the store it didn't feel all that heavy. But me thinks they probably took the battery out before they put it on display. Wish I could give my money to someone else and just have him or her buy the computer for me. Really, the more I read the more I think its all the same!

[imron]

So, if I install Windows on my Mac using "parallel", does that still mean that I have to restart the system if I want to do e-banking, use 飞信 or outlook? Or can I have it running in the background?

You can set it up so that it's running simultaneously with OSX, and you run windows programs alongside your Mac programs. See here for more info.

[randall_flagg]

Then a Mac it is (perhaps!)!

[anon6969]

Macs are a waste of money for a rubbish product.

You get far more for your bucks buying a PC.

If you aren't doing movie making or making podcasts - why buy a Mac?

[imron]

If you aren't doing movie making or making podcasts - why buy a Mac?

I can think of loads of reasons. Things that I like:

*No real concerns about viruses

*On the fly changing of the interface language to whatever language you like

*Magnetised power cord to prevent damage if someone trips on the cord (this has saved my Macbook at least twice).

*Double finger scrolling on the trackpad

*Based on Unix, so a whole bunch of programmer friendly tools and utilities

More bang for your buck with a Windows machine is not necessarily true either. When I bought my Macbook Pro two years ago, the equivalent Windows laptop with the same size, weight and specs was about AUD$1,000 more expensive, which was one of the reasons I decided to try one.

What is it particularly about Macs that makes you think they are a rubbish product? My experience has been the complete opposite, and I've found them to have loads of tiny little features that make you appreciate how well designed they are.

[Senzhi]

they come with Vista. And I can't say that I have heard anything good about it.

True, the noise is there. And, usually, noise comes from people complaining, particularly on Tech forums. You rarely see people giving praise these days on such forums, only complaining about problems on their specific machine. But that doesn't mean there aren't an equally fair amount of people who have no problems with Vista at all.

Also, every version of MS Windows released on the market, had its share of being criticised as being the worst version ever (or something alike). Including XP when it was released.

Personally, I'm very happy with Vista on my T60. I wouldn't go back to XP. But I also equally believe in OSX on a Mac.

[imron]

Also, every version of MS Windows released on the market, had its share of being criticised as being the worst version ever (or something alike).

With Macs, it's usually the opposite with most people finding that the newly released version is the best version ever

[peekay]

I write (security) software for both the Mac & Windows, and my main machine is a 13" aluminum MacBook.

From my perspective:

- The Mac OS X is not inherently more secure than Windows. I actually worry since most people don't run anti-virus on their Macs, one of these days we'll see a very rude awakening in Apple-land. The only reason a massive OS X worm/virus attack hasn't happened yet is... actually I don't know why. Let's just say, if I were just slightly more evil...

- I travel a lot, and I have to be more careful while traveling with my MacBook because it has glass LCD parts and a rigid aluminum chassis (not a great combination.) The top and bottom covers of the MacBook do flex so it can withstand some shock, but I feel the MacBook is more fragile than any of my business PC laptops. (And certainly when compared to ruggedized laptops like the ToughBook series.)

- In my opinion, OS X is different from -- but not better than -- XP or Vista, despite all the hype you read. There are a lot of silly / annoying / inconsistent things in OS X. I've owned Macs since the old Motorola days so I'm used to these things, but just prepare for them if you're migrating from Windows.

- I love the multi-touch trackpad. I hear mainstream PC laptops will ship with them soon but right now it's pretty much a Mac-only feature.

- I hate the lack of Firewire in the new MacBooks. I hate the lack of ExpressCard / CardBus expansion slot even more. The MacBook Pros (which has these things) are too large for me to travel with.

- I actually run Vista as a virtualized instance on my MacBook. I use VMWare Fusion, which I prefer over Parallels. I don't use "bootcamp" for this, due to some security issues most Mac users don't care about.

- Fusion is USD $79 (similar pricing for Parallels.) Legally speaking you will need to buy a copy of Windows XP or Vista if you plan on using it with your MacBook. You are NOT allowed to "move" a copy of Windows from your old laptop to your new MacBook, legally speaking.

- The new MacBook uses expensive DDR3 RAM (with no real benefit to you) and I recommend getting 4GB of RAM with any new laptop (Mac or PC). On top of that you really should buy AppleCare extended warranty with any Apple laptop.

- When you add things up, a Mac laptop is significantly more expensive than a PC laptop... (I hear my fellow Mac users protest already, but that's the reality.) These days one can buy a decent 15" PC laptop with 4GB RAM and 256GB drive for $599.

Having said all that, I'm still a Mac user obviously, though if I weren't writing OS X (and now iPhone) software I'd sure take a hard look at the competition.

[randall_flagg]

Again, I have to say that I appreciate all your input.

Peekay, thank you so much for your detailed description of pros and cons. I've seen my friends use the multi-touchpad and it looks neat so say the least -- but not like something I NEED. Right, I think I'd want a card reader embedded into my laptop, that's something I've gotten used to over the years and wouldn't want to do without. After what that (apparently pretty savvy) sales person told me, I thought MacBooks were super durable when compared to all other laptops. Guess that's not necessarily true. Also, it seems reasonable to assume that worms and viruses might wriggle their way into Macs in the near future. Although that has not happened yet it has somewhat weakened my original "no viruses" argument a bit. Now, if I only had reliable battery power data....

Imron, several people have told me what you just said: Although PC's look faster on paper, they tend to slow down radically over time, hehehe, let's call that one 纸上谈算！

Shenzhi, thanks for reassuring me on Vista. With all the badmouthing people are doing I was getting really insecure about it. But for an average user like me Vista will probably do just fine.

Guess I'll be reading everybody's posts again and again during the next couple of days to help me make my decision.

[renzhe]

My recommendation is to use a Mac for a while and see if you like it.

Much of what Mac is about is the polished feeling you have when using it. There are people who like this and they tend to love their Mac to bits. Then there are people who are more interested in benchmarks, cost/performance, and other factors.

Some people really like using a Mac, maybe you're one of them. They do have real advantages (viruses, user comfort, design), but also real drawbacks (it's a windows-centric world, there are cheaper PCs to be had...) The most important decision, however, is whether you enjoy using it.

[Rayguy]

I’m running Mac now. I was a PC user three months ago. I really like Mac, because it is low virus-attacked and I can surf any website without fear. Like we knew, a lot of virus made by Chinese language, so we should really care about our computer. I don’t want to lose any data and get everything restarted when we are attacked by virus.

Mac book now is not pricey, I just got that $1200. I check the review and Apple is very stable and not easy to get problem. So don’t worry the repair issue and there are a lot of store helping people fix computer problem in China. You don’t need to find the real apple store.

In addition, price is similar with high-end laptop like VAIO. If you are willing to run PC software in your Mac, you also can install “fusion” or “parallel” which are the program run windows on your Mac at the same time. I am running Vista with my Mac book now and it works. I don’t want to get rid of some good program based on PC, it is really a good way to keep it on my Mac book.

So, you can think about Mac now, it is a good option, not only PC….haha…Enjoy Mac!!!

[pandaxiongmao]

As a Mac user, some more things you should consider about the switch:

1. The battery life on the latest MacBooks is only around 3 hours, and not hot swappable like PowerBooks were a few years back. Only the MacBook 17" has decent runtime, but it costs far more than you probably would want to spend. PC laptops often have extended batteries available that give a more reasonable runtime. Apple doesn't.

2. The current MacBook's super glossy screen (because of glass) really annoys some people, so you should try one before buying it. It is much more glossy than the glossy screens found in PC laptops. The MacBook Air has a better screen (though it is more expensive), and the 17" MacBook is available with a matte screen (for an extra charge).

3. If you only use Boot Camp to run PC software and not Parallels or VMware, you will probably need to use an external USB mouse. Apple still hasn't got their glass trackpad working properly in Windows (though it is not as bad as it was). The driver doesn't always track your fingers and clicks the way it does on the Mac side of things.

Also in response to the PC suggestions:

Samsung laptops fall apart just as quickly as Dell or HP's consumer machines. One that I bought in China before lasted barely a year before it began having overheating and shutting down problems.

Lenovo Thinkpads are good quality, but you will pay for it.

[DrWatson]

peekay,

The Mac OS X is not inherently more secure than Windows. I actually worry since most people don't run anti-virus on their Macs, one of these days we'll see a very rude awakening in Apple-land. The only reason a massive OS X worm/virus attack hasn't happened yet is... actually I don't know why. Let's just say, if I were just slightly more evil...

What anti-virus software would one run though? Stuff like Norton Internet Security and what not tend to take over a computer and make it quite unusable in the end.

[DrWatson]

- I hate the lack of Firewire in the new MacBooks. I hate the lack of ExpressCard / CardBus expansion slot even more. The MacBook Pros (which has these things) are too large for me to travel with.

The ExpressCard is the biggest problem with the Mac product line-up. MacBook Pros are simply too big, but the MacBook doesn't have any expansion options outside of USB. While this does not make me give up on Macs (because I like the software I use on OS X), I certainly hope it might be addressed one day.

Where I live there is very little access to WiFi, but there are many unlimited data plans for mobile networks. There are so many ExpressCards for accessing HSPA and 3Gnetworks, but none exist for the Mac because developing ExpressCard drivers and software for Mac OS X is not a wise investment. Instead the only thing I have found is a Huawei USB dongle for 3G and HSPA, but the software is buggy from what I have seen.

[peekay]

A good anti-virus for the Mac is Intego's VirusBarrier. They have a version which can protect OS X and also any Windows instance on bootcamp / Parallels / Fusion.

I recommend companies to always install anti-virus / anti-malware on corporate computers (be it PC or Mac), since they tend to have file shares, various services running, use document macros, USB keys, etc. Just one computer getting compromised can put the entire company at risk.

For individual users running behind a router/firewall, the risk of malware is fairly low if patches are automatically updated (and not downloading random executables / codecs / drivers from porn sites, online casinos, torrents, etc.)

The emerging threat these days concerns browser security... things like "cross-site scripting" and "cross-site request forgery" which can trick users into divulging their online banking passwords, credit card numbers, etc. These attacks are platform-agnostic so PC users, Mac users, and Linux users are all equally vulnerable to them.

In China specifically, the other big threat for foreigners doing business there is theft of intellectual property / trade secrets. A stolen laptop (or mobile device) can have massive consequences. So usually the use of disk encryption products is recommended, at a minimum.

[DrWatson]

peekay,

thanks for the suggestion. At work we had a virus break into the network due to USB sticks. And Norton (what the IT guy likes) didn't catch it until it was too late. I've always been worried that one day my Mac at home will get something, and I really don't trust Norton products. Like you said, it only takes one disgruntled software developer that knows the internals of OS X to wreak havoc.

[randall_flagg]

Thank you, everyone, for your help and for your many suggestions!

I did end up buying another "real PC", though, mostly because I was worried about compatibility in China.　Ｂｕｔ　Ｉ　ｍｕｓｔ　ｓａｙ，　Ｉ　ａｍ　ｒｅａｌｌｙ　ｈａｐｐｙ　ｗｉｔｈ　ｍｙ　Ｖａｉｏ！

[renzhe]

I've always been worried that one day my Mac at home will get something, and I really don't trust Norton products. Like you said, it only takes one disgruntled software developer that knows the internals of OS X to wreak havoc.

I don't find this logical at all. Why would you feel safer with an operating system famous for millions of viruses over an operating system famous for having no successful virus outbreaks ever?

The logic about Mac being vulnerable because it is open doesn't make any sense either, because all the Windows vulnerabilities are known just as fast as Mac/Linux/Unix ones, and there are often more of them, but are ignored for months and years by Microsoft.

If someone wants to wreak havoc, he reads security mailing lists and there's more Windows stuff out there than Mac. Ultimately, Macs are safer, in part, also because they are better products, based on proven technology.

[Senzhi]

Ultimately, Macs are safer, in part, also because they are better products, based on proven technology.

I couldn't agree less. Macs are simply considered safer, because there are less Mac users than Window users. Far less.

Let's not forget that organised crime is just one of the many ways to do (dishonest) business. And any business will do it's target market research. Even organised crime. Of course!

But from a pure technological point of view, one has still to prove me why a Mac would be safer than a Windows machine. Or vice versa.

I like both. But I most certainly would put a virus/malware scanner on either one. Better safe than sorry.

[renzhe]

I couldn't agree less. Macs are simply considered safer, because there are less Mac users than Window users. Far less.

This is certainly a factor, but not the only one.

There are other, real factors. For example, Mac doesn't automatically execute random email attachments with administrator privileges. This alone was responsible for countless windows worms.

But from a pure technological point of view, one has still to prove me why a Mac would be safer than a Windows machine. Or vice versa.

Because Mac is a Unix, and Unix has a proven track record of security. More specifically, Mac is based on a BSD, and probably the safest operating system in existence is a BSD (OpenBSD, to be exact).

While Windows technology has been catching up over the last 20 years, one also cannot ignore its attrocious security record, and the refusal of Microsoft to fix open vulnerabilities.