Chinese dictionary with IPA

[youreallygotme]

HI,

I'm looking for an online dictionary which has IPA transcription of Mandarin words. Is there such a page? I find pinyin just too inaccurate and useless when learning pronunciation.

Thanks!

[roddy]

I don't think there is one. However, a pinyin to IPA mapping shouldn't be too difficult, so if you ask whoever runs your current favourite dictionary they might make one . . .

[liuzhou]

Pinyin - IPA chart.

[peekay]

Personally I've found pinyin to be very accurate -- when properly used -- and excellent for learning Mandarin pronunciation. Problems usually occur when people try to pronounce pinyin syllables as English syllables, not realizing they are very different from each other.

Wikipedia's pinyin article has a mapping between pinyin, IPA, and English pronunciation.

And of course, any dictionary mapping from pinyin to IPA cannot increase its pronunciation accuracy.

[Xiao Kui]

If you realize the sound of a vowel is often determined by the preceding consonant, then pinyin is easy, accurate, and efficient. Examples: The i in "zhi" and "ji" are different. The u in "zhun" and "jun" are also pronounced differently, etc. I'm not familiar with IPA so I can't compare the 2, but I've been very satisfied with pinyin.

[LiScing]

I'm looking for an online dictionary which has IPA transcription of Mandarin words. Is there such a page? I find pinyin just too inaccurate and useless when learning pronunciation.

Not useless, but I find what is listed in PINYIN-based dictionaries may not accurately reflect what you hear from Chinese people. I don't mean from Chinese instructors; I mean like people on the street. For example, many Chinese people say PUO where PINYIN shows PO. Words ending with IU are usually pronounced like IO with a closed O, but sometimes I hear IU quite often. YING is often pronounced 2 different ways, depending on the character (sometimes with and sometimes without a deeper Y sound).

EDIT:

Others differences I've heard.

然后 - ranhou often comes out as nahou.

绕 - rao often comes out as lao.

弄 - nong often comes out as long.

[LiScing]

Trying out IPA with pinyin in square brackets.

阴天 [yintian] intiɛn

阴阳 [yinyang] injɑŋ

应该 [yinggai] iŋgaɪ

营养 [yingyang] jiŋjɑŋ

EDIT: Notice that pinyin cannot distinguish the difference in pronunciation between the 2 ying's above (although it can distinguish the tones). The difference can be noted with IPA though.

[tooironic]

Learn pronunciation from native speakers. Pinyin is just a romanization scheme.

[roddy]

Seems a bit like saying Chinese is just a language - yes, it's just a romanization scheme, but there's a pretty clear need for one, it's well established, and learned well and early it can be invaluable. The value of native speakers depends entirely on the native speaker in question.

[atitarev]

I agree that Pinyin is very important. It's only useless if it's not understood (e.g. if 餐 (cān) is read with a /k/ sound instead of /tsʰ/). So, initially you need some training with a teacher (probably native speaker), audio recordings (probably read by native speakers) or simply other native speakers acting (with a good accent) as teachers. So the answer is in the middle - neither Pinyin is useless, nor native speakers. Learn Pinyin. If you already mastered IPA, Pinyin is a breeze. Pinyin is too popular, consistent and accurate. You CAN learn the pronunciation of any given Chinese word (Mandarin) just after mastering Pinyin.

You can see how Pinyin is rendered with IPA: Hanyu Pinyin

The exceptions only exist with words using 儿化: Erhua. I find that different sources present words in Pinyin with Erhua differently, e.g. 花儿 huār or huā'er, especially if the final is a consonant, e.g. 一点儿 yīdiǎnr, yīdiǎr, yīdiǎn'er, etc. but I am more confused with the IPA notation here than Pinyin. yīdiǎnr is the most common and I think it's the standard way to romanise 一点儿 (somebody confirm, please).

[LiScing]

Pinyin - IPA chart.

Not sure I believe it. According to the chart:

Pinyin's b=[p] in IPA

Pinyin's g=[k] in IPA

[atitarev]

Not sure I believe it. According to the chart:

Pinyin's b=[p] in IPA

Pinyin's g=[k] in IPA

You never stop learning The chart is not lying, though. Pinyin symbols p, t, k are actually pronounced [pʰ] [tʰ] [kʰ] - aspirated.

In Wade-Giles these sounds were romanised as p, t and k (Pinyin b, d and g) and p', t' and k' (p, t and k).

[LiScing]

b in PINYIN sounds like p in the English word spill and not in the word pill. That's what it means.

[Glenn]

That's what atitarev just said.

[Hofmann]

Ahem...as sort of said above, you can determine the IPA of any syllable from the Pinyin.

[atitarev]

Was my 2nd post deleted (between 12 and 13)? I wonder why?

[Glenn]

I don't know. That's weird, though. I definitely saw it. It's a shame, too, because it couldn't have been too easy inputting [kʰ], [tʰ], and [pʰ]. It also makes my comment look absolutely retarded, now that I think about it.

[roddy]

Is that the one that is now #12? Looks like it got accidentally unapproved and has now been replaced. Apologies, clumsy admin fingers.

[atitarev]

Is that the one that is now #12? Looks like it got accidentally unapproved and has now been replaced. Apologies, clumsy admin fingers.

Thanks, that's the one. :rolleyes: Perhaps you can now delete the posts about the deleted post.

[roddy]

Will do that later - don't want anyone to think I'm covering anything up . . .