Beijing vs Shanghai

[keith]

Which of these 2 cities is the better one to live in/ find work etc?

What are their respective strengths and weaknesses?

Let's discuss.

[Yuchi]

Considering Shanghai is China's most populated city, I'd suppose this one would be the best for both situations you mentioned.

I myself have never been to Beijing.

Taxi drivers in Shanghai might speak to you in shanghainese, but if you reply in mandarin, they'll talk back in mandarin.

[wushijiao]

Well, I have lived in both, granted for short amounts of time. I think both cities have a lot in common when you compare them to just about anywhere else in China. Both cities are trying to be major "international" metropolises, which is just something other good cities like Qingdao or Dalian just can't do.

Anyway, here are some of my personal feelings. Please, don't hesitate to disagree.

Beijing

Pros

1) Great Western food and nightlife.

2) Cheaper than Shanghai.

3) Funny, macho, politically oriented people.

4) Home of Chinese rock.

5) The city, in my view, is orderly and easy to navigate.

6) Great place to learn Chinese, as long as you like r's on eveything.

7) Clearly a lot of history.

A well educated population, yet still a blue collar mentality.

Cons

1) Air pollution is much worse than Shanghai.

2) Some people view Beijingers as arrogant and self-important. I never found this to be true, however.

Shanghai

Pros

1) Business friendly.

2) The best Chinese food in China.

3) Almost a complete disregard for politics (maybe that's a con).

4) More "green" than Beijing, with a lot of beatiful parks.

5) Fashion and trend capital of the Mainland.

6) The most open-minded people in China, I'd say.

7) Better weather than Beijing, generally speaking.

Cons

1) Crowded, even by Chinese standards.

2) Ironically, colder in Beijing in the winter due to a lack of indoor heat.

3) People are somewhat ambivalent towards news and current events.

4) Slightly harder to learn putonghua, as most people speak Shanghaihua to each other. Although, eveybody can speak putonghua to you.

[TSkillet]

My personal preference would be to live in Shanghai - but here's how I'd put it:

Beijing is a great Chinese city.

Shanghai is a great city, which happens to be in China.

[amperel]

macho

like the village people?

[ala]

Yeah Shanghai is cold in the winters, and summers are slightly cooler than Beijing (typhoon relief for Shanghai). Shanghai is a city you have to be there for a while to really discover its culture and atmosphere. A week-long tour trip to Shanghai would not be nearly enough. The city is very diverse (I don't mean by simply demographic diversity) and I would be doing it a huge disservice by generalizing it (macho, feminine, business-centric etc). It is easy to find your groove in Shanghai. In my opinion it should be the first stop for foreigners to China. You would be mesmerized by the energy of the city.

In terms of living, Shanghai is more expensive than Beijing, but not by much. Tidy and simple convenience stores in Shanghai are on nearly every block corner. The neighborhoods and the small stores are extremely diverse in Shanghai. Your mode of transportation will probably for the most part be taxis which can be hailed any time you need one. Many streets are one-way, and not gridlined, very difficult to navigate for newcomers. Jobs, are probably the same in both Shanghai and Beijing, though the bulk of corporations have China headquarters in Shanghai. But it depends on what kind of job you are looking for of course. Pollution in Shanghai is lower, though still pretty high.

[wushijiao]

I think Beijing is also influenced more by the culture of Northern China- the Shanxis, Hebei, and Dongbei, and Shanghai is more influenced by the Jiangsu and Zhejiang cultures. I think there is a subtle difference in these cultures that most foreigners can't quickly understand, and once you understand it, you can't convey very easily in English. I don't know how to describe the difference other than using generalities. And I'm not sure how useful it is to describe the difference in cities by giving simple Atlas facts.

I stand by my "macho", for Beijing. I've sat around eating meat sticks and forcing other guys to drink baijiu in the North much more than I have in the South. If you are in the North, watch a blue collar guy walk around. Watch how he talks to other people, how he positions his back, how he orders food....etc. The mannerisms seem intent on expressing a "don't mess with me" attitude, that I don't find as much in the south. If nothing else, I think most people can see the different mannerisms in Kun and Jing Jus, with their respective regions.

When I was in Beijing, it seemed much more common for even girls to go to bars, swear and yell at guys, with "Cao this" and "Cao that". When I lived in Henan, these "masculine" (social constructions of masculinity, of course) behaviors by women- drinking, smoking, hanging out with guys late at night- would be seen as "unlady-like".

Likewsie, if you walk into a common CD store in the north, you'll find a lot more rock CDs, both Chinese and foreign. In Shanghai, you'll be hard pressed to find many Chinese rock CDs in the common CD store, besides Zero, Beyond, and maybe Dikeniuzai. So, then, does harder rock, as opposed to Hong Kong or Taiwanese pop, appeal to Beijingers because that's what is fashionable, or does it speak more to the emotions of their lives. I don't know.

On the other hand, I've always associated Shanghai and the South with refinement and elegance. I think ala is right that Shanghai's culture isn't nearly as accessible as others. I'm still trying to learn more about it.

[Guest dingo]

none of the above mate

the best cities in china are hongkong and guongzhou

[Claw]

The NY Times just put out an article about Shanghai becoming an international culture center: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/07/arts/07SHAN.html

The article makes some comparisons with Beijing as well. I like the photo of the Shanghai Grand Theater... very modern, yet also very Asian.

[shibo77]

Beijing is a great Chinese city.

Shanghai is a great city, which happens to be in China.

Precisely! I think I have heard this expression elsewhere before.

I like both cities very much. But I like the climate and enviornment of Shanghai better than Beijing. Beijing, although it's getting better, used to be very dirty. Sand from the Gobi desert would be blown over due to deforestation. After a night of sleep, one can just see a layer of fine yellow dust on the windows. Also, Shanghai has a river, and is next to the sea; Beijing is in the middle of nowhere, the Imperial family just happened to decide to live here... Straight streets, small fragile trees lined straight... it's a nice model city, but always feels a bit awkward.

Beijing for history, Shanghai for comfort.

-Shibo

[ala]

This quote from the NYTimes article isn't really true:

"Beijing has its Forbidden City, its prestigious national schools and museums, its centuries-old neighborhoods that breathe Chinese culture, none of which Shanghai can realistically challenge. But like Tokyo, all but destroyed in World War II, this city is making a virtue of its newness."

Shanghai has a history on par with New York and Chicago, which is to say Shanghai is not an artifical city based on newness. In many ways, Shanghai has more living history than Beijing (besides the Beijing tourist attractions). Second, Fudan University in Shanghai is pretty damn prestigious. Third, the Shanghai Museum is certainly the best Chinese history museum in the mainland.

[TSkillet]

.

Likewsie, if you walk into a common CD store in the north, you'll find a lot more rock CDs, both Chinese and foreign. In Shanghai, you'll be hard pressed to find many Chinese rock CDs in the common CD store, besides Zero, Beyond, and maybe Dikeniuzai. So, then, does harder rock, as opposed to Hong Kong or Taiwanese pop, appeal to Beijingers because that's what is fashionable, or does it speak more to the emotions of their lives. I don't know.

As support to this arguement notice how the Mainland Punk scene is totally centered in Beijing, while Shanghai's new music scene centers on more clubbing music.

Shanghai has a history on par with New York and Chicago, which is to say Shanghai is not an artifical city based on newness. In many ways, Shanghai has more living history than Beijing (besides the Beijing tourist attractions). Third, the Shanghai Museum is certainly the best Chinese history museum in the mainland

Yeah, but which neighborhoods in Shanghai are centuries old? Yuyuan Gardens? Most of the historical districts date back to the late 19th century. And the Shanghai museum is only 7 or 8 years old.

[BeijingSlacker]

Edit: Check Terms and Conditions re copying and pasting.

Roddy

[skylee]

I stand by my "macho", for Beijing.

On the other hand, I've always associated Shanghai and the South with refinement and elegance.

北人豪邁 南人風流

[Disenchant]

Beijing is a great Chinese city.

Shanghai is a great city, which happens to be in China.

I think you lifted that straight out of some magazine, because it sounds too familiar. There are plenty of cities in China that are great in general besides Shanghai, and I don't mean conventional answers like Hong Kong or Aomen.

[TSkillet]

I think you lifted that straight out of some magazine, because it sounds too familiar.

You can think that, but I didn't. It's obviously a pretty easy sentiment to think up - sheesh I did, I'm sure someone else has as well.

Plenty other great cities in China - yes, but they're distinctly Chinese cities. Shanghai is international[/u]

[ala]

Yeah, but which neighborhoods in Shanghai are centuries old? Yuyuan Gardens? Most of the historical districts date back to the late 19th century. And the Shanghai museum is only 7 or 8 years old.

The Shanghai Museum was founded in the early 50's I believe and has been moved two times (the longest period being in the Zhonghui building).

I don't know, how many Beijing neighborhoods are actually "centuries old"?

Yuyuan garden is not really centuries old (most of it is faux, and built during late 1800's). Still, Nanshi district is actually quite old as an urban settlement, dating to the 1600's (when Shanghai became registered as a port). There are a couple of temples in the suburban area that are centuries old in Shanghai. But they don't really reflect the urban environment of Shanghai. But as a wall-less, modern city, I would say Shanghai is the oldest in China.

[TSkillet]

The Shanghai Museum was founded in the early 50's I believe

Right, but the current building was new when I went for the first time - and that was 1996

I don't know, how many Beijing neighborhoods are actually "centuries old"?

Aside from the hutongs? Well, not neighborhoods, but it's very difficult to go around Beijing and *not* get a sense of centuries of history - from the Forbidden City, Tiantan, still standing city gates (none of which I remember), streets that were paved 3-500 years ago - I don't think one gets the same feeling in Shanghai. At least I don't. Shanghai's history feels (at least to me) 70 years old. Shanghai may have more living history than Beijing (a debatable point) - but I always feel the weight of centuries when I'm in Beijing as opposed to the weight of decades in Shanghai.

[amperel]

ahh... the pride! why don't shanghainese worry about making shanghai a modern progessive city like nyc instead of the burden of history?

[ala]

I always feel the weight of centuries when I'm in Beijing as opposed to the weight of decades in Shanghai.

This is very true. But I would say the stories are just as interesting.