Peking University School of Transnational Law - first J.D. program in China?

[zerolife]

this is kind of a continuation of my thread posted a few weeks ago regarding find a job in China but I figure it's a new topic so I'm starting another thread. Original thread is here http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/19955-finding-a-job-in-china-non-teaching. Mods, please feel free to merge it with my previous thread if you think its more appropriate.

Well I think the overwhelming response I got (thanks to everyone) is that China is no longer a magic land for foreigners trying to find a job, especially with the two years working experience requirement for visa. So i'm now considering to go back to school, preferable in a Chinese university. I mean I've always planned to go back to school in a year or two for a master degree or law ... so why not do it now.

Now back to the topic, here is an interesting school I've found - an American style law school that grants a J.D. degree and plans to seek ABA (American Bar Association) accreditation.

http://stl.szpku.edu.cn/en/

Just wondering, what do you guys think about this school?

Yes, it's new, and it's probably not very recognized in China as they teach American style / international law. J.D. does not exist in China so I heard they just call it master in international law in Chinese.

However, my believe is that someone graduating from this J.D. program will have a significant advance compared to a regular Chinese law school graduates when it comes to employment with a n international law firm in China. Correct me if I'm wrong...

Anyone knows how the job market for lawyers are in China?

Yes, it's taught by American law professors in English and the dean of the school is the former president of Cornell

[gato]

You might want to try a lawyer's board. This thread below seems on topic with different opinions being offered.

http://www.infirmation.com/bboard/clubs-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=003EDf

Hong Kong Market

[peekay]

If the school is not yet recognized by the ABA, then you can't be admitted to the bar in the US which is a *massive* disadvantage to this program.

It's not even clear that you will be allowed to practice before Chinese courts with this degree alone, since this program is really designed for Chinese students who are already lawyers (i.e., having a Chinese Bachelor's in Law degree.) So you could be in a situation where you'll have a JD but can't practice before the court in any jurisdiction!

This school requires a huge investment in time and money (150,000 RMB per year) and for that kind of effort, honestly, you're better off getting a J.D. from any US law school, pass the Bar exam at jurisdiction of your choice, *then* get an LL.M from a Chinese law school (maybe even from PKU.)

[zerolife]

Thanks for the info gato and peekay

yes, it seems like there is a lot of unknowns when it comes to a new school and the success of the school all depends whether they will actually receive ABA accredidation.

I obviously wouldn't even consider taking such a risk if it weren't the fact that it's located in China and I would probably have a networking advantage compared to graduating from a US law school.

FYI actually, like US program, this program is designed for people with non-law related bachelor degree. I had the opportunity to chat with a few students from there and most do not have a bachelor in law degree. Regarding, the Chinese bar exam, from what I heard anyone who has a Bachelor degree in ANY major is eligible to pass it ... not that you have a chance of passing it. Might explain why the passing rate is so low (20%).

You are right, 150,000RMB is a lot in China, but I would pay at least triple of that in the US

[gato]

This school is attempting to become the first non-US law school to be accredited by the American Bar Association. Pretty unlikely to happen. If it's feasible, you would have seen schools in many countries more developed than China (like Singapore) to have obtained the accreditation already.

If you are serious about working as a lawyer, you would be better off going to a US law school. This school is doomed to fail. Right now, it's attracting students who can't get into Peking University's law school in Beijing so they pay 150,000 yuan a year (PKU's tuition in Beijing is only something like 10000 yuan/year) to go to this new PKU affiliate in Shenzhen to get the PKU name and the chance at ABA accreditation. But it's not the same. In a few year when it's more clear that the reality is so much less than expectation, the interest in the school will collapse.

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202421959463

China-Based Law School Will Be First to Make Bid for ABA Accreditation

Leigh Jones

The National Law Journal

June 5, 2008

Peking University School of Transnational Law wants to become the first foreign law school accredited by the American Bar Association.

Founding Dean Jeffrey Lehman will seek ABA accreditation for the school so that graduates can take bar examinations in the United States.

No other foreign law school is accredited by the ABA, nor has any foreign school sought ABA accreditation, said an ABA spokeswoman. The ABA standards do not limit accreditation to U.S. law schools only, the spokeswoman said.

[peekay]

You are right, 150,000RMB is a lot in China, but I would pay at least triple of that in the US

I wouldn't say triple, especially for US residents, unless you're talking Harvard or Stanford Law which would be a totally unfair comparison to an unrecognized PKU program.

E.g. for CUNY School of Law -- a Tier 1 Law School -- the in-state tuition is less than $10,000/yr ($15,000 for non-residents). Room and board is around $5000/yr. That means you one can probably attend this school for about the same price the PKU program and qualify for the New York State Bar, which can be a huge plus if you want to do transnational law.

Also note that to directly qualify for most State Bar exams, the JD program you attend must have been ABA-accredited during your entire course of study there. If you enroll at PKU before they are ABA-accredited, then your degree will be unrecognized before US courts without either: a) more years of study at an ABA-accredited school, or B) years of practice as a licensed lawyer abroad.

[rob07]

My 2c (I am a lawyer. I don't work in China but my firm has offices there)

I agree with everything gato and peekay have said.

Regarding, the Chinese bar exam, from what I heard anyone who has a Bachelor degree in ANY major is eligible to pass it ... not that you have a chance of passing it. Might explain why the passing rate is so low (20%).

I thought you said in your other thread your written Chinese is only intermediate? Could be a tough exam to pass with intermediate Chinese!

Even if this school does get ABA accreditation that probably won't be enough. Reputable international law firms have very specific requirements about the sort of universities they hire from. Chances are, if you apply for a normal full time position from a University that is not a recognised top 50 ABA school (or whatever the firm's cut off) they will bin your CV without reading it. This school is not going to be recognised top 50 anytime soon.

Getting hired as a grad in China would already very difficult (seems to be what you mean). Most international firms would want you to have some experience. I hear the market there is very bad as well.

You said your first degree was from a "very reputable" US university. Not sure exactly what "very reputable" means but if you are able to go to a very reputable US law school you would be crazy to go here instead. The extra fees would be worth every penny and more.

I obviously wouldn't even consider taking such a risk if it weren't the fact that it's located in China and I would probably have a networking advantage compared to graduating from a US law school.

Well you would be networking with other students. None of whom are likely to get jobs with reputable international law firms.